Hypermiling legal constraints

[tbaleno]

More appropriately:

Minimum speed regulation. (a) No person shall drive a motor vehicle at such a slow speed as to impede or block the normal and reasonable movement of traffic except when reduced speed is necessary for safe operation of his vehicle or in compliance with law.

If you are on a multi lane road and cars can use another lane they might find it hard to prove you impeded trafic since the other lane is available.

also:

(b) Whenever the Department, The Illinois State Toll Highway Authority, or a local authority described in Section 11‑604 of this Chapter determines, upon the basis of an engineering and traffic investigation concerning a highway or street under its jurisdiction that slow vehicle speeds along any part or zone of such highway or street consistently impede the normal and reasonable movement of traffic, the Department, the Toll Highway Authority, or local authority (as appropriate) may determine and declare by proper regulation or ordinance a minimum speed limit below which no person shall drive except when necessary for safe operation of his vehicle or in compliance with law. A limit so determined and declared becomes effective when appropriate signs giving notice of the limit are erected along such part or zone of the highway or street.

To me implies they must post a minimum speed on any road that driving too slow can cause an impedance or blocking of traffic.

In reality all this stuff says that it isn't really illegal to drive slow, it is illegal to block or impede traffic.

At least that's my take on Illinois law.

[msirach]

The legalese in these articles looks like the decision could be determined by an arbitrary ruling of a patrolman. I thought I had heard before in Illinois that on an interstate, the minimum speed was 45 mph. I travel only on hilly 2-lane roads with a lot of semi traffic in the early morning.

[hobbit]

Power steering isn't really needed during normal medium
to high speed travel -- in fact it often shuts off or
moderates its effect when the car's traveling above some
speed or other. It's not needed unless you're wheeling
around a lot at low speed and it's harder to crank the
tires against pavement.
.
Brake boosters, on the other hand... that's why ECB and a
nicely engineered regen system is so wonderful..
.
_H*

[lightfoot]

Originally Posted by hobbit

Power steering isn't really needed during normal medium
to high speed travel -- in fact it often shuts off or
moderates its effect when the car's traveling above some
speed or other. It's not needed unless you're wheeling
around a lot at low speed and it's harder to crank the
tires against pavement.
.
_H*

So if I'm coasting ICE-OFF at 65mph in my Subaru (hydraulic power steering) and an emergency "situation" arises ahead, I brake it down to say 30mph, then ask everyone to wait while I restart the ICE so I can swerve quickly? No thanks!!

IME, bad things happen when you try to brake and swerve simultaneously; if possible it's best to lose speed first and then maneuver. Which puts you into the heavy steering zone if the ICE is off (for typical cars).

In the Insight I agree that the electric power steering means that there is much less issue with ICE-OFF coasting. You lose the ability to accelerate away from a situation but acceleration isn't the Insight's strong suit anyway.

[xcel]

Hi Lightfoot:

___You have my complete agreement with the no-thanks as that is your choice but not for the underlying capabilities of most cars on the road today. FAS’ing is a personal choice but you appear not to understand the technique’s implementation or most automobiles capabilities. You can brake from 60 down to 30 in a FAS and you still have brakes but you are missing a large part of why a FAS is so compelling. If you needed brakes to get down to 30 from 60, you should have rode Fuel cut with engine braking down in the first place, not a FAS while riding the discs! There is absolutely no good reason to have used your brakes in that situation other then an almost emergency stop and you would not FAS into something like that. If you were in a FAS during that situation, 60 to 0 is not a problem either. It is the continual tap tap tap of the binders to bring your speed down is what will get you into trouble in a hurry. You do understand that you should have at least 3 full applications of the brake pedal due to the vacuum left in the boosters before you lose the powered portion of your brake system, right? Again, if you needed to touch those brakes more then 3 times in a coast down, you were not paying attention to what was going on in front of your path and were coming into a traffic situation way to hot. An aggressive driver coming in hot has no business riding a FAS into anything let alone being as traffic aggressive as he or she was in the first place.

___About restarting. Why would there be any wait for others while you restart your ICE? If you went from your brakes at 60 to 30 immediately into an acceleration phase, there was at least 5 seconds in the braking portion of the scenario where you could restart your ICE at anytime? I cannot think of a situation where traffic went from 60 – 30 in a hard brake and everyone immediately went WOT to get back to 60. Traffic doesn’t ebb and flow in that manner in Chicago, Detroit, LA, San Francisco, Orlando or Phoenix in my travels over the past 5 years. With your manual transmission equipped automobiles, dump the clutch and you are on your way anyway. You have to be paying attention to what is going on round you including the front and behind. If you are not paying attention to this, I wouldn’t be concerned with pulling a FAS in traffic in the first place as you have no business doing so.

___As for an Insights EPS, I pulled the fuse for that capability as it was so over boosted at slow speeds, I hated it

___Good Luck

___Wayne

[tbaleno]

lightfoot. It isn't as bad as you say. But if you are uncomfortable with it and it is against the law in your area then don't do it. There are many other things you can do both safely and legally.

[lightfoot]

Apparently I was unclear so I need to restate it:

IT'S NOT THE BRAKES THAT WORRY ME, IT'S THE STEERING! And ONLY in cars with hydraulic-assist steering: I've been doing FAS's in my Insight for a while, no problem.

When I did a test FAS in my Subaru at about 35mph on a quiet local road a few weeks ago, the steering immediately became what I felt was unacceptably heavy. Brakes were not a concern.

Hobbit pointed out that power steering may phase out at higher speeds. On thinking about it, I realized that in an unforseen emergency situation one usually brakes FIRST and THEN maneuvers, so avoidance is typically done at a lower speed where ICE-OFF will stiffen hydraulic power steering. Again, not a brake issue, a steering issue. If you go back and reread what I wrote I think you'll see this.

Have been doing ICE-ON coasting in my Subaru with the aid of a Scangauge lately and the results have been pleasing. Previously tank mileages have been 24-25mpg, but today my usual commute hit 33.3mpg (which admittedly is only for the trip, not a tank). The Scangauge makes it possible, and I'm still learning. The Insight gets well into the 70mpg's on the same route, but the Subaru is heavier and AWD, so I'm pleased with 33mpg in it. Obviously ICE-OFF would be even higher.

Perhaps I'm excessively defensive-minded because of many accident-free years riding motorcycles (ca 200,000 miles - but many riders have more). In 45 years of driving cars and motorcycles I've had only one minor fender-bender (in a car) and I'd like to keep it that way.

And Tom, as I had posted previously legality isn't a big issue for me because I think coasting is almost undetectable and unprovable, for cars at least. I don't think coasting is particularly unsafe except as noted above AND as long as one's full attention is on driving.

[xcel]

Hi Lightfoot:

___I do not know how your Subaru handles steering inputs at speed in a FAS but even in the MDX which is an overweight pig of an SUV, at 30 she will go lock to lock without any undue amount of force. I routinely lane maneuver in the Accord in a FAS while moving from a higher to lower speed lane and have never considered steering input an issue. At 30 + mph, the boost effect of a speed-sensitive PS system is practically nill. At 60, the difference is all but undetectable.

___Good Luck

___Wayne

[lightfoot]

Good, I think we've learned something here:

Apparently different hydraulic power-assisted steering (HPAS) vehicles respond differently to ICE-OFF. I thought Subaru's full-time AWD might be a factor but the MDX is full-time AWD, right? And also drivers probably vary as to how heavy the steering can be and still be acceptable to them.

So perhaps add a comment in FAS-ing instructions for people with HPAS vehicles: they should test-FAS in a safe, low-traffic area to see how heavy the steering feels at various speeds with the ICE OFF so that they can decide if this would be acceptable to them under emergency conditions.

[xcel]

Hi Lightfoot:

___Yes, the MDX is an AWD SUV. We ENCOURAGE at a minimum and darn near DEMAND anyone that is considering a FAS no matter the automobile both learn about and practice FAS’ing on an absolutely deserted roadway or parking lot so as to not only understand what is going on but feel what his or her car operates like without power steering and the loss of power brakes after a few pumps. We had a new member who went right for the advanced techniques and blew through a stop sign as well as left his car in the off position (did not reboot) so he probably had no steering since it was locked as well? That scared the hell out of me although fortunately for all of us, no one was hurt. He is a much more aware driver now

Hi all!

___Good Luck

___Wayne