Cris from Phoenix

CRIS · #1 06-09-2010, 02:01 AM

hello, new guy here from phoenix. i have been studying up on hypermiling for a few months now, and finally decided to go all out. so i sold my bmw 740iL that got me 19mpg, and bought a 2001 honda civic ex 5 speed instead. it amazes me how much money i save in fuel over the BMW. EPA estimates around 35mpg combined. initially i got 40mpg with the A/C on, 2 000 rpm shifts, 40psi in the tires, and a top speed of 60mph (3000rpm). i am currently at 58mpg, using advanced techniques(the best i can), without A/C, 1500rpm shifts, 60psi in tires and 50mph top speed (2500 rpm). i fear this is the best i can do. the only problem i have with the car is the gearing. i am used to the 2000 rpm @60mph, 3000@80 that i got from all my other cars, and i cant help but to wonder why honda geared this car the way they did, it has plenty power to maintain speed even at 1500rpm, so why set it at 3000rpm @60mph??? im sure i could surpass 60mpg with taller gearing.. does anyone else have this problem? and are there any gear swaps available for civics? also, is there anything else i can do to my car to maximize FE? thanks guys.

Right Lane Cruiser · #2 06-09-2010, 06:27 AM

Welcome, Cris!! It sounds like you are doing a fantastic job with your Civic... and thank you for trading "up" from the the BMW.

Are you using any P&G? I assume you have a ScanGauge?

diamondlarry · #3 06-09-2010, 07:28 AM

Welcome Chris. I don't know a whole lot about Honda's as I got my first one a month ago but, I have heard of people swapping in a transmission from and older Honda CRX HF and getting some good gains. It seems to be quite a labor intensive swap though. I would suggest P & G as Sean mentioned for immediate higher results so that if you do eventually swap transmissions you will be able to squeeze the most out of a setup like that.

jimepting · #4 06-09-2010, 02:23 PM

You should not dismiss 58 mpg. It is an excellent result! I'm sure that you have noticed that the biggest improvements in FE occur when you first start to hypermile. After a while you begin to approach an inherent limit for the car. At that point, you have to just concentrate on small improvements. Your accomplishments to date are wonderful, and I'm sure your will achieve still some more small but significant improvements.

The gear change that diamondlarry spoke of would help of course, but it would be quite expensive if you used professionals, and labor intensive if you did it yourself. Is it really worth it? You might do what I did. I contented myself with a Toyota Echo AT, and its limitations, for a couple of years while I thoroughly learned the techniques, then I traded up to an Insight 1. But honestly, the 58 is so much better than the rest of the world that you owe no one any apology.

If you decide to enter the FE Challenges, you will get an appropriate baseline FE. It will be lower than some more stingy cars so you won't be at a disadvantage. That's my take, and BTW welcome!

CRIS · #5 06-09-2010, 10:38 PM

i do not have a scan gauge and am not using P&G, though i coast downhill and to stoplights every chance i get. im not sure about continuously pulling in and out of gear and revmatching all the time while cruising on the open road, just doesnt seem right to me. it seems like excessive wear on the clutch/tranny and takes a lot of work revmatching all the time. i will give it a try though. what kind of gains should i expect from P&G?

i will look into the HF tranny swap, but i think you are right about the cost outweighing the fuel savings. i have a good mechanic who does work for cheap and was simply looking at a 5th gear swap, like ive seen some people do to their saturns. civic hx might be a perfect fit for a quick swap.

about the insight. the only reason i did not go for that is because i do not trust the durability of battery technology, especially during these terrible arizona summers. just to give you an example on a much smaller scale, i bought a brand new GPS unit a few months ago, and already the battery wont hold a charge anymore even for 30 seconds, so i have to keep it plugged all the time......im curious though, can the battery pack be removed from the insight so it will run on the gasoline motor alone??

Right Lane Cruiser · #6 06-09-2010, 10:56 PM

Hi, Cris... To put this into perspective consider my '02 Elantra 5spd. In that car I was averaging 36mpg on the highway before hypermiling and using high speed P&G. I'm now able to pull between 52 and 57mpg in the speed ranges you've mentioned. On really good days with just the right conditions I can pop her over 60mpg on some stretches. Your car should be worth a lot more than mine with the same techniques. Mid 60's at the least if you are achieving 58mpg with the techniques you've listed? My Elantra has a tank at 65mpg with no highway trips so if you want to really work it your top end ought to be higher.

The first generation Insight can indeed be run sans battery pack, though you lose all the nice hybrid features doing it. In order to keep the 12V battery charged you'd have to modify one of the wires and it would always start from the auxiliary starter, but you'd still have lean burn and could drive it just like you do your Civic... but with a whole lot less power (67hp with low torque). For a lot of people it would simply be too slow, but I drive without using my pack for electric assist so it is always as slow as that would be and I get along just fine.

PaleMelanesian · #7 06-10-2010, 08:15 AM

The HF transmission will be a tough one to swap in, since it's cable-driven vs all the more recent ones being hydraulic. I think you would have to stay within the 7th gen civics, so the HX would be your best bet.

It looks like you're already in the "great" range. You should get a scangauge. I assure you, you will not regret it.

I drive on lower-speed roads and do a 25-40 mph p&g routine. On the highway, I do 45-60 mph or so, and get mid-60's and sometimes 70 mpg.

kngkeith · #8 06-10-2010, 11:53 AM

You might want to wait on the P&Ging until you get a scangauge (if you decide to get one). That technique is most helpful when receiving immediate feedback. It is possible to get worse results if using P&G incorrectly.

Keith

CRIS · #9 06-10-2010, 09:17 PM

thanks for the tip guys, turns out you were right about the P&G. i did a 45-60 and ended up with 62.2mpg from a 220mile drive with 35% city driving. the only problem i have now, is that everyone i told about this, called me a liar. good problem to have i guess..

now what do you think about a 45-70 P&G. better or worse?

Right Lane Cruiser · #10 06-10-2010, 10:42 PM

Nice work!!

I would not go that fast (70mph) -- the extra wind resistance is going to chew up a lot more fuel on the pulse and you lose speed a lot faster too so you won't reap much in the way of benefits. I would instead recommend looking for any opportunities to shift your speed set points lower -- there are often lulls in the traffic which would allow you to do this. Also, look for spots that will let you expand your window from a 15mph delta to a 20mph delta. The higher the speed, the bigger the delta needed to actually wring anything from it.

I suspect to get much better you will need to acquire a ScanGauge. I have to play a very careful game of ensuring that the end of every glide in a P&G cycle ends up with a higher trip average than the end of the previous glide... else my mileage is very quickly down into the 40's. That's still higher than I'd get with steady state but the car is worth so much more. Once you can actually see what you are doing that 62 will be on the lower end of what you achieve regularly in decent weather during the summer.