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[Right Lane Cruiser]

Hi, Karen -- does it go easily into 5th or 6th for bump start when in a FAS? My Elantra does not -- I have to pull it slightly toward 4th to get the synchros to spin a bit first, then it drops straight into 5th.

[MaxxMPG]

Sean, she's heading over to her dad's house at this time for some tweaks on his new netbook. Along the way, she is going to try the FAS with the aFCD displayed to answer Wayne's question about whether the display updates during an FAS or if it locks in place and changes (or remains the same) upon restart.

So far, the couple of times she has tried FAS, she has restarted with the key. With the new clutch, she is uncertain about the smoothness of a bump start. With her back injury, she does not want the jolt of an abrupt bump start if she doesn't get the clutch engagement just right. As the car breaks in and she gets the clutch modulation nailed down, she will probably want to give it a try.

So far, her perception of a bump start is the old push start on MT cars, where the car is placed in first gear and you pop the clutch to get it started and you get jostled a bit. I described the quick stab of the clutch, then a rev match and smooth take off in the proper gear, and I think she might eventually want to experiment. But I think the trial bump start may be something that happens after some more miles and greater familiarity with the car.

[Right Lane Cruiser]

Sounds good, Chris. Let her know that several of us here have manage to pull off multiple clutch starts without our passengers noticing anything out of the ordinary.

[MaxxMPG]

Originally Posted by MaxxMPG

Wayne,

Karen tried a FAS and wrote me to say that the numbers were all wonky and were down by 5 and the popped back up. That confused the heck out of me. Well, it turns out that she was looking at iFCD, which moves constantly until speed/tps settles into a groove. I said the one to watch is aFCD. And so she is going to head out again shortly and try it out. She found a stretch of road where she feels comfortable in a FAS - from about 35-40mph coasting down over about half a mile.

She is going to report the results herself when she returns. She joined earlier today (as KittyBoodles) to share some more of her experiences with this car as well as past vehicles.

Another perk for the Sonata - she said it is very easy to steer in a FAS, although it naturally takes more effort at lower speeds. Sounds like the Hyundai EPS is well calibrated for our needs.

Wayne,
Update on aFCD during FAS...
For the test, I told her to slow to about 10mph, reset the aFCD and then accelerate briskly to 35 or 40 (for a low aFCD number) and then note the value and FAS for about half a mile.

She said when the key is off and the car is rolling, the display goes to ----
Upon restart, the number reappears and it is much higher than when the engine was cut.
So during a FAS, the aFCD will not be available, but it does update when the engine is running again.

My theory is that the computer displays miles divided by gallons, with gallons determined by measuring injector pulse width and frequency. So in a FAS, the gallons value would be zero because the injectors are off. And so the calculation would cause a division by zero, hence the ---- or "I don't know" display. When stopped, the aFCD just shows the value it had when the car was parked, so I think the calculation is thrown off when the car is moving but there are no injector pulses. The computer is likely using a dummy value like .0000001 during DFCO because the aFCD will update under that condition.

At least the aFCD does recognize the distance covered with no fuel usage, and so FAS will not skew the aFCD display.

[Right Lane Cruiser]

Sounds like a possible mod (for someone else to try at a future date) is an injector kill switch. Perhaps it would read that as a DFCO condition and update the aFCD?

[MaxxMPG]

I am wondering if engine rpm figures into their equation, along with vehicle speed and injector pulse?

One interesting test would be to FAS and come to a complete stop, and see if the aFCD pops on with the higher number when the car stops. It doesn't seem to have a problem showing you the number if the engine is off when it's parked. Another fun test would be to set the key "on" and then roll down a hill to gain speed without the ICE running, and see if it blanks out right away or after a distance.

In thinking of an injector kill switch, it wouldn't have the desired result if the aFCD equation does factor in engine rpm. At that point, the kill switch would only bypass the key-twist to stop the engine. Since the 6MT is only available on the GLS version, there is no worry about having to thwart the proximity key (pushbutton starting) to use FAS . And all those keyless-start models have the 6AT which is not flat towable, so FAS is already off the table.

[KittyBoodles]

Okay - I have a complaint.



aBIG complaint.


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Ready?


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I want a REAL HORN. Not this "beep beep" thing. ARRGGHH!

One interesting test would be to Fas and come to a complete stop, and see if the aFCD pops on with the higher number when the car stops. It doesn't seem to have a problem showing you the number if the engine is off when it's parked.

I actually did this.

Maybe I did not wait long enough, I waited roughly 30 -40 seconds but then I had to get going again because someone appeared behind me on the hill I'd just come down.

Another fun test would be to set the key "on" and then roll down a hill to gain speed without the ICE running, and see if it blanks out right away or after a distance.

This I wanted to try, actually tried it twice, however where I was parked I did not have enough "down" to get moving... and one place I could do it I wouldn't dare (in front of my dad's house on a pretty nice downhill) it really isn't that long to the highway and it's a VERY blind entrance both ways, that would be suicide to try there. At some point here there will be a steep enough hill to try that on and I will.

[KittyBoodles]

Originally Posted by Right Lane Cruiser

Hi, Karen -- does it go easily into 5th or 6th for bump start when in a FAS? My Elantra does not -- I have to pull it slightly toward 4th to get the synchros to spin a bit first, then it drops straight into 5th.

Hi there


Chris wrote:

So far, her perception of a bump start is the old push start on MT cars, where the car is placed in first gear and you pop the clutch ....

and he's correct.

One main reason I wanted to put my little story here (above posts) is to show what experience I've had with MT cars, this Sonata is my first MT car that actually works the way it's supposed to. Downshifting from 4 - anything (or any other type of downshifting) never - ever worked in the Mustang, and you could only go from 5-3 in the Daytona before it would have a stroke and quit on you if you were not fast enough on the clutch... and that was the High Performance one that I could not always get to with my back/leg.


So.... while Chris explained it to me, I really would rather wait for a little while, and, it would be helpful also if someone would explain it step by step for me what to do to bump start it.

Just to explain a bit further, I'm not afraid of the car, I'm afraid of my back. One wrong move (even a sneeze) can throw it out, so that limits me in life. Example; I'm not afraid of spinning an airplane when it's a "controlled gentle stall / spin" because even though the plane I own and fly is notorious for it's stall / spin characteristics (it flips over on it's back, then rolls back over, then starts spinning) it's typically not a harsh jolt unless you really kick the rudder into it. If you are interested, google "Piper Tomahawk" and "spin" and you'll find plenty of accident reports and tons of video.


So if someone could please explain step by step - and please remember too that I don't know all of the acronyms used here on this site - how to do what you want me to do, once I get a little more time on this clutch I will try it. Is there maybe a video here somewhere? Also maybe some day an expert could meet up with me and show me how, as I'm more of a visual person.

Thanks!

[KittyBoodles]

Oh sorry, hit post too fast...

I have a question please, for anyone who uses a MT.

On many of these back roads, they are what I call "roller coaster" roads... up, down and lots of s-turns. There is almost always a point in time when you are at the top of one gear close to the next one up (or at the bottom of one close to the next one down) to within 1 MPH or so. It is not always the correct thing to do to follow the little arrow to up or downshift because of the road changes ahead... and in the past I've never had a car with the arrow suggestions, I've always gone by RPM and feel.

So here is my question: Which is better for fuel economy: If I'm riding in 5th and just at the top where the car is very very close to 6th, do I stay a little low in 5th - or - do I up to 6th and take the 1 or 2 MPH faster? (road conditions permitting both gears are safe to be in)


Thank you

[MaxxMPG]

Originally Posted by KittyBoodles

Okay - I have a complaint.
a BIG complaint.
I want a REAL HORN. Not this "beep beep" thing.

Ha! It can't be any worse than the horn on my old red Chevette (aka "The Vette"). That plaintive nasal trilling followed by that awful gurgling that sounded like the car was choking to death. It was wonderfully effective because people were afraid of the horrible noises it made rather than being irritated that they were the target of acoustic wrath.