Winter Beater Deliberations

ILAveo · #1 08-22-2009, 05:27 PM

I just gave my 96 Taurus to my younger son to take to college (he had to fix error codes to prove he could deal with it.) My older son has dibs on the 01 Saturn. That means I'm in the market for a new winter beater to drive to work. So far I've found three "good" candidates looking around local Craigslist and a charity auction inventory that will be held in about a month for an alternative school that has an auto repair program:

1. 93 Civic DX 5 spd, no AC, no power steering -- $1200 firm -- Craigslist

2. 98 Metro 3cyl 5 spd, no AC, Slight/moderate rust issues, needs tires baldly-- Charity Auction

3. 91 Festiva 5 spd, no AC, fairly low miles, but substantial rust issues -- Charity Auction

I expect that the Metro would go for around $1000 and the Festiva for $300, but I haven't been to the auction before so I could be way off. Are my price expectations reasonable?

What should I be looking for to evaluate these specific models? How do people think I should compare between these cars?

BailOut · #2 08-22-2009, 07:07 PM

Why do you not want to drive your Aveo in the winter? I ask as my Yaris handles winter in the Sierra Nevada mountains just fine. I've even forded 10" of snow with Spikes Spiders on.

nervousmini · #3 08-22-2009, 07:36 PM

I would guess that the Metro and the Festiva would both be $500 or so cars at an auction setting - especially with the rust.

That being said, I always budget for a set of tires and brake pads whenever I buy a car in this price range. Even if they don't need them (and they always seem to), it's usually a good budget target for the minimum repairs it will need to be roadworthy.

So, this is what I came up with (all prices from tirerack) - if it helps:

1. Civic DX. Kumho Solus KR21 $46 each, ATE premiumone pads $55, satisfied pro shoes $16 = $255 + shipping and installation
2. 98 Metro Kumho Solus KR21 $40 each, ATE premiumone pads $62, satisfied pro shoes $16 = $238 + shiping and installation
3. 91 Festiva Yokohama Y372 $40 each, satisfied pro pads $32, satisfied pro shoes $16 = $208 + shipping and installation.

So if you are interested in a single season beater buy whichever seems the best of the auction cars (metro or festiva). But you may be better off long term and investing a bit more in the civic and avoiding the rust issues and have a car you might be able to use for 2 or 3 winters (or more)

I don't know much about the Festiva, but I have seen SERIOUS frame rust issues on the Metro - especially in states that salt the roads - ala IDOT

I would lean to the civic if you have the budget now for a longer term beater but if not then the amount of rust would decide between the metro and festiva.

I hope this helps

MT bucket · #4 08-22-2009, 08:41 PM

needs tires "baldly" hehe cute

i would go for the civic, only 200 bucks more and its a much nicer car.
the metro might get better mileage, but the rust on those things can be terminal!

ILAveo · #5 08-22-2009, 11:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BailOut

Why do you not want to drive your Aveo in the winter? ......

The Aveo is the wife's car mostly. We run it all winter. It's the Ranger that'll sit in the winter except if snow is such that ground clearance matters. Front wheel drive is less technical on snowy hills. Occasional work on emergencies precludes me carpooling regularly and makes it a good idea to have a backup car anyway.

At nervousmini: The Metro's rust isn't as extensive as the Festiva's which looks much rougher, but both are rusting in the structure underneath. I haven't had a chance to inspect the Civic. My knee jerk reaction is that a lot of guys could get their wives to drive the metro because it would be cosmetically OK after a little detailing, but most wouldn't try the Festiva. Thanks for the tire quotes. The prices you quote on brakepads seems a little high to me maybe because it's a higher quality brand than what I usually get? Is there much difference in stopping power or is it mainly a difference in the tendency to squeak?

warthog1984 · #6 08-23-2009, 12:10 AM

ILAveo-

Have you tried the old weight trick in the Ranger? 300lb of sand/salt will do wonders if you keep it forward of the axles. The Dakota was slipping when we got 1/4" of freezing rain a couple years ago. A quick Walmart stop and 300 of salt in the bed & you would've thought it had chains on.

As for brakes-

"Premium" brakes will last longer but stopping power is the same. "Street Performance" brakes (ie HPS) will chop ~20% off stopping distance. "Auto-X" brakes (ie HP+ on my Civic fronts) will be slightly noisier and wear out in a year but stop fast enough to overpower the ABS and make your head hurt.

ILAveo · #7 08-23-2009, 12:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by warthog1984

ILAveo-

Have you tried the old weight trick in the Ranger? 300lb of sand/salt will do wonders if you keep it forward of the axles. The Dakota was slipping when we got 1/4" of freezing rain a couple years ago. A quick Walmart stop and 300 of salt in the bed & you would've thought it had chains on.

....

I use firewood, but same idea. It helps, but FWD is still easier (it's not like I ever got the Ranger more than momentarily stuck though) and I'm hoping to hold onto the Ranger for a few extra years by mostly keeping it out of the salt.

nervousmini · #8 08-23-2009, 12:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ILAveo

At nervousmini: The Metro's rust isn't as extensive as the Festiva's which looks much rougher, but both are rusting in the structure underneath. I haven't had a chance to inspect the Civic. My knee jerk reaction is that a lot of guys could get their wives to drive the metro because it would be cosmetically OK after a little detailing, but most wouldn't try the Festiva. Thanks for the tire quotes. The prices you quote on brakepads seems a little high to me maybe because it's a higher quality brand than what I usually get? Is there much difference in stopping power or is it mainly a difference in the tendency to squeak?

Given your description of the "structural" rust, I would take a pass on both. I don't have a problem with driving an ugly vehicle - but once the rust starts hitting the frame rails, suspension mounts or body supports you're talking about a big problem you generally don't want to get into.

The brake brands are full of tradeoffs just like tires - I just used what the tire rack sold out of convienince since I was on the website to get a ballpark price. As a tech, I have learned over the years that while aftermarket brands may physically fit the hole of the old part they are replacing - the performance is often quite less. Having said that I won't go with anything but OEM for safety items like brakes. ATE is a well known OEM supplier for BMW, Mercedes, ect. You can always substitute your favorite brand of tire/brake, my suggestion was just a reflection of personal taste.

BTW, if you want a real winter road warrior - the Firestone winterforce tires are a great bargain vs Blizzaks/xice snow tires and might be a good choice for a winter only car that could stay off of them in the heat of summer that would wreck a true winter tire.

warthog1984 · #9 08-23-2009, 01:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nervousmini

As a tech, I have learned over the years that while aftermarket brands may physically fit the hole of the old part they are replacing - the performance is often quite less. Having said that I won't go with anything but OEM for safety items like brakes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nervousmini

BTW, if you want a real winter road warrior - the Firestone winterforce tires are a great bargain

I'm sorry, did you just say you won't go anything but OEM for safety and then advocate a tire brand that had not one but TWO massive tire failure coverups and scandals 25 years apart?

Sorry, this just tripped my WTH sensor.

nervousmini · #10 08-23-2009, 01:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by warthog1984

I'm sorry, did you just say you won't go anything but OEM for safety and then advocate a tire brand that had not one but TWO massive tire failure coverups and scandals 25 years apart?

Sorry, this just tripped my WTH sensor.

Fair enough.

I don't know about the issue from 25 years ago, but the Firestone/Ford Explorer issue from what I know was pretty evenly the fault of Ford for bad engineering just as much as Firestones poor quality control.

I am pretty confident of Firestones product now - though I don't have allot of consistant personal contact with the product being sold now, I think they are working pretty hard to shake the issues they have had in the past and it's showing in the current product line. I am not advocating that they are in the same product league as Michelin and Continental, but certainly worth consideration.