The Wishful Thinking of Greenie Dreams

[fuzzy]

Originally Posted by DocOc

... About CFL ... I can see how it makes sense to compare coal usage with mercury usage ... but not really. I would personally much rather breathe in exhaust fumes than mercury, but that's just me...

The comparisons I've seen were mercury vs. mercury. Typical coal contains many impurities, including mercury, that are released when it is burned. The typical release of mercury from the coal burned to power incandescent bulbs is much higher than from improperly disposal of the equivalent CFLs at the end of their service life.

[fuzzy]

Regarding CFLs, the author seems to be the type of consumer who, when deciding between a prepaid cellular service plan requiring a $20 phone, or a postpaid service plan offering a phone for 1 penny (remember those adverts from the 1990s?), would instantly choose the latter because the phone is cheaper. The cost of service needed to operate the phone is off his radar screen.

""If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. ..." It's a line by Lewis Carroll. But you might be forgiven for believing it is taken from the latest World of Green Energy Solutions handbook. "

Et tu?

[DocOc]

I use CFL lightbulbs in all the sockets in my house. I bought them because they use less electricity than regular bulbs and provide a good amount of light.
Upon careful study here it turns out that fluorescent tubes and energy efficient light bulbs are considered household hazardous waste by my region's waste management. This means that when my bulbs bite the dust, I have to pack them up in the original container (or suitable substitute) and drive them 15km to the dump so they can get rid of them properly. Then drive back another 15km.
To me, this seems like an extra hassle, but I will probably go through with it. How many other people do as well? I would venture to guess that of all people using CFL in the region, less than half will dispose of them properly.

[lightfoot]

Originally Posted by DocOc

This means that when my bulbs bite the dust, I have to pack them up in the original container (or suitable substitute) and drive them 15km to the dump so they can get rid of them properly. Then drive back another 15km.
To me, this seems like an extra hassle, but I will probably go through with it. How many other people do as well? I would venture to guess that of all people using CFL in the region, less than half will dispose of them properly.

Good point, but you won't have to do it very often because they last roughly 8-10 times longer than an incandescent. I switched to CFL's in 2000 and since then have replaced only two or three.

Plus, hopefully soon either:
(1) more recycling centers will open as more CFL's are used, so there will be one nearer to you;
or
(2) manufacturers will find ways to reduce or eliminate the use of mercury in CFL's.

I need to get some pendants and discovered that they are now available with LED's from some vendors.

[DocOc]

Agreed.

It was a good discussion.

I'll keep using CFLs, I'll keep driving my fuel efficient car, and I'll keep trying to conserve when possible.

I will also keep reading American Thinker articles because it's always good to be exposed to dissenting opinions. This should apply to everyone, even if the opinion presented is not valid. Valid dissenting opinions change ideologies; invalid dissenting opinions strengthen ideologies.

Keep on truckin'

[phoebeisis]

Dococ,

Worse case(and most likely case) is the CFL are tossed into a land fill, and buried for 100's of years until it makes $$ and cents sense to mine the landfill for metals and glass. In time the organic matter in those landfills will decay to CO2 and water, and a little plastic( which also slowly decays) .Metals ,and glass will be all that is left. Who knows how long it will take, but someday those landfills will be mines. Lots of steel and the metals from batteries will be concentrated in them. They will be valuable someday. The tungsten in normal bulbs-all in landfills-will also be valuable. Yep, landfills will actually concentrate metals-the organic stuff will all decay to CO2,H20 if it is shallow enough, or get reduced to useful methane that we can reburn. I won't live to see it, but men will mine landfills someday-concentrated metals and maybe some organic matter to burn.

Besides, even if a tiny bit of these mercury compounds ends up in groundwater-don't drink it or use a filter, or get water somewhere else.
There is mercury in coal, and breathing that is more certain than the "maybe" of it getting in ground water.

It will be a long time before CFLs are "properly" recycled, so just assume they will end up in a landfill.

The lead in many water pipes in houses (solder) should be a much bigger and more immediate concern than the maybe a problem of CFL mercury.Elemental lead, and all its compounds are plenty toxic. We drink it-lead-all the time. It is worth worrying about-especially if you have kids.

CFLs save plenty of electricity-for light and the AC I don't have to use to cool my house, if it was filled with old type high heat producing bulbs.

Charlie

[fuzzy]

... it turns out that fluorescent tubes and energy efficient light bulbs are considered household hazardous waste by my region's waste management. ... I have to pack them up ... and drive them 15km to the dump so they can get rid of them properly. ...

What? None of your region's CFL retailers have stepped forward with programs to take back dead units for proper disposal / recycling?

How backwards of them.

[PaleMelanesian]

EPA Fact sheet on CFL bulbs and mercury. This is assuming they're thrown into a landfill and not recycled.

http://www.energystar.gov/ia/partner...et_Mercury.pdf

[Chuck]

Andrew,

I like that picture!

[DocOc]

Originally Posted by fuzzy

What? None of your region's CFL retailers have stepped forward with programs to take back dead units for proper disposal / recycling?

How backwards of them.

The word you're looking for is 'stagnant'; 'backwards' implies a move.