Harley-Davidson Over the Hill?

[bestmapman]

Does this Spell the End For Harlley-Davidson.

By Joseph V. Tirella- MSN Money - Mar. 27, 2009

It would be sad to see such an American Icon fo! --Ed.

Like many Americans in their 40s, Michael Bogart is thinking about aging.

In the 1980s, when Bogart first started working at the Harley-Davidson (HOG, news, msgs) motorcycle dealership in Long Island City, N.Y., his average customer was between 25 and 35. Today, he says, it's more like 45 to 55.

He's got nothing against his older customers, the dealership's general manager says, but that shift illustrates a big problem for the iconic motorcycle brand: "Guys don't want to be riding this bike that looks like their grandfather's bike." Video: A 20-something rider tests a Harley

Bogart isn't the only one worried. Harley-Davidson might be one of the best-known brands in the world, but it's perceived, at least in some circles, as the motorcycle of choice for aging baby boomers. Now the motorcycle giant confronts a double whammy: Its aging customers are facing physical challenges that could keep them off their bikes for good and financial troubles stemming from the recent market meltdown. On top of that, luxury brand Harley is itself struggling to get through a broad, deep recession and credit crisis.

... [Read More]

[Indigo]

I like the looks and styling of Harley Davidson motorcycles quite a bit. You can see its influence in other manufacturer's designs, such as the Valkerie Rune. But the reason why the age demographic for HD is so high is because the prices of their motorcycles pretty much preclude younger buyers from purchasing them. Let's face it: a Harley is an impressive bike, but how many 25-year-olds have $30k to spend on a motorcycle? The younger folk are usually cash-strapped and will get a Suzuki -- if they can afford a motorcycle at all!

[abcdpeterson]

The video in the MSN story has a sales man pointing to a bike just under $8k and says that is afordable.... a quick look at Honda's line up shows a number of Smaller bikes for less $$ some of them under $4k.

[SentraSE-R]

Harleys were over the hill three or four decades ago, when the first UJMs came over the ocean. The Honda CB750, Kawasaki Z-1, and Suzuki GS-1000 were quiet, smooth, powerful, and reliable. They relegated Harley-Davidson to the niche "rebel" market it currently occupies.

There are an impressive number of fat old guys who want to grow their hair long and show off on weekends, but people who use motorcycles for transportation know that any Japanese motorcycle with half the displacement will be quieter, smoother, faster, less expensive, and more reliable than a Harley.

[Chuck]

Could this be just like the auto market? Japanese motorcycle companies can make affordable bikes, but Harley can only make a profit on big luxury bikes.

[SentraSE-R]

Harley is selling '32 Ford coupes, or '57 Chevys, in 2009. They're expensive, and they don't compete in the modern marketplace for price or quality. They excel as retro (or original) dream vehicles to a niche market.

Harley-Davidson begged for government tariff protection in the 1970s, putting a huge tax hit on all competitive Italian, Japanese, German, and British motorcycles with over 700 cc displacement. That allowed Harley to develop its Evolution engine and claw its back into the marketplace, if you consider government protection to be competitive.

Modern motorcycle engines are DOHC, water-cooled, efficient powerplants. Harley engines are pushrod, air-cooled dinosaurs. Harley is not competitive outside its nostalgia niche.

[Earthling]

Originally Posted by SentraSE-R

Modern motorcycle engines are DOHC, water-cooled, efficient powerplants. Harley engines are pushrod, air-cooled dinosaurs. Harley is not competitive outside its nostalgia niche.

That's not entirely correct.

Harley has the V-Rod, with a water-cooled V-twin designed in Germany:

http://www.harley-davidson.com/wcm/C...#/model/vrscaw

The problem with the V-Rod is that the "faithful" (Harley fanatics) have pretty much scorned the bike because it's not retro enough and doesn't sound enough like a retro Harley. So here is Harley trying to modernize, and they are having trouble with their dyed-in-the-wool customers. So you can't blame it all on Harley. It's kind of like GM and Ford trying to sell fuel-efficient cars, and having their customers reject them in favor of FSP hulks...

By the way, my BMW is an opposed twin that is air-cooled. It does have fuel-injection, an electronic motor management system, 4-valves per cylinder, and an oil cooler to help out (this type of BMW motor is referred to as an "oilhead.") BMW does offer water-cooled inline engines in some models, which incorporate some Formula One technology, as well as some singles and twins with water cooling.

Harry

[abcdpeterson]

Harley need to something compelling to buy, other than the same old look.

I can see why Harley buyers scorn the V-Rod. The styling is still trying to keep the traditional look without an Incredible big reason to buy it.
The guy buying the traditional Harley is NOT looking specks and performance, he wants the Old School look, feel and image of a Harley.

If Harley wants to be round in 15~ years they need to design something from ground up NEW.
They can keep making the old school bike as a secondary line for people willing to pay extra for an "Image".

Harley NEEDs to find something to compel young buyers at this price range.
Kawasaki 250cc Ninja $3,999
Honda Nighthawk $3,799
Honda Rebel $3,399

[SentraSE-R]

Harley-Davidson rebadged some Italian Aermacchi two-stroke motorcycles in the 1960s and 1970s. Like the VROD, they just didn't appeal to "real" Harley owners. That's amazing to me, as Harley owners are by and large the biggest poseurs in motorcycling (apologies to any Harley owners out there).

[drimportracing]

Originally Posted by SentraSE-R

...as Harley owners are by and large the biggest poseurs in motorcycling (apologies to any Harley owners out there).

This is a common saying in HD world and it applies to your above comment:

"HARLEY DAVIDSON. If I have to explain you wouldn't understand." - Dale