CleanMPG Previews the 2010 Toyota Prius-III

Aside from a prototype PHEV_or_BEV, nothing on the planet can touch it.

I really don't like the look of the new display, but I have not seen it in person? Has any of you driven the new Honda Insight and can maybe give us a head to head comparison. Maybe a MPG challenge in the near future.. Thanks

Should be some stiff competition for the Insight-II if it really comes out at under $20,000.

Still fugly all the same. Looks like it has a nose

Hi Jud:

___To reiterate what Dan provided regarding 1) and 2). The EV button appears to require 4 + bars to use it? The two times I tried to use it was at 3-bars and the denial message appeared. Not sure about the 34-mph limit as I was not SG-II equipped to watch the tach. Dan told me privately he may have experienced some failed glides with the SG-II’s tach displayed so the EV button still should allow a FAS in the new Prius-III where we need it. Just not sure abut the EV limits as it appears ~ 25-mph is a new limit vs. 34 mph before?

3), Yes unfortunately but we were told this back in Detroit and sure enough. The Fusion/Milan has it all over the Prius in this regard but the FFH/MMH are just too big and heavy to play with the Prius. Another item is I never saw a failed glide in the SG-II equipped MMH two weeks ago whereas Dan’s info says we may still have to deal with that

4) Pulses... For me, I was just over the EV threshold bar (within one-quarter of the distance past the EV threshold) unless climbing and probably in the 1,400 to 1,500 RPM range during my pulses. It felt similar to the –II down in that range but rarely did I see above 25 mpg during a pulse and higher R’s made it worse than the acceleration gains addition for a longer glide. The mimic cannot be used to pull a good pulse “rate” anymore as it is not resolute enough imho.

5) WS, yup.

6) Not sure about the stages as I did not have to drive through them other than the 100% highway run in the middle of the night and I idle checked at the first stop just in case

7) Warm up should allow approximately 40% higher FE during the first 5-minutes. A 25 mpg 5-minute bar should be a 35 mpg 5-minute bar now. I did not have but one of these cycles other than the night drive. All the runs took us through the same EV out to the Highway and than pick it up in speed. I never checked the 1 and 5-minute graphs while out there unfortunately.

___There is something else about the 2010 Prius-III that is really going to help everyone. While at the gas station for the final middle of the night all-highway drive and first top off, EV’ing over to the air station and spinning the car around a few times for the other tires, Danny and I were booted up for approximately 15 to 20-minutes and we did not lose a single bar of SoC! The lights were shut off of course but the NAVI was up. I believe the Inverter/Transverter and overall static draw of the system (meaning car) is much more efficient than the Prius-II’s. If the Prius-II wastes ~ 400 W, and I suspect the Prius-III is well below 300.

___Basjoos, in mid to high 30 degree temps, I did not see it even for a few seconds. SoC came up to 6 bars and held but there was no flashing current arrows into and out of the pack on the Energy screen or the nice little jump into the 70’s and 80 mpg range on the iFCD that SHM reveals. This Prius-III includes an actual EGR and the lack of the exhaust valves closing late to draw in some of the exhaust for re-burn may have removed SHM as we know it? “If” the OEM FCD is accurate (I suspect it is over reporting as the fill shows), the Prius-III is more efficient on the highway than the –II given 65 mpg at a 50 mph DWL cruise in those temps will not yield that high of FE in an 09. I just cannot wait to see a 7-bar SoC in mid-summer with a prepped Prius-II in our hands on the highway. Then we will really know

___Sandman, look at the Insight-II Preview and compare with the above. On the highway, the Insight-II will still take down a Prius-III but it is a lot closer for the average driver if the FCD’s can be belived.


___The Prius-III probably cannot achieve what the Insight allowed below 55 mph although the Insight-II drive was in 60 degree temps with the Bridgestone’s at placard while the Prius-III was driven in 37 degree temps w/ the tires at 60 psi for that single one-off all-highway drive in the final hours of the Long Lead Preview. Above 55 mph however, the Insight-II’s shorter gearing will harm it far worse than the Prius-III’s extra tall solution with the 1.8L loafing. Again, not sure about the RPM’s at various highway speeds due to lack of an SG-II

___Around town, the Prius-III like the Prius-II will eat an IMA equipped Hybrid up and spit it out as unwanted refuse.

___Green VTEC, although the Prius-III was de-contented in some respects (no large MFD), smaller HSD componentry including smaller pack without as much cooling HW and a smaller and more efficient Inverter/Transverter, it still weighs 152 pounds more than its predecessor due to additional safety equipment, slightly larger engine and Exhaust Heat Recirculation system. The 110 pounds that was being touted at the Launch/Reveal in January and even at the Preview last month is not correct from what I received from Bill Kwong a few weeks ago. I updated the spec sheet reflecting the latest and unpublished info for this Preview early this morning.

___And of course the instrumentation provides more detail mostly due to the simple HSI display but having to scroll through the various displays including 5-minute bars, energy, consumption, LKA and Laser Cruise and trip histograms to get back to the HSI display is a PIA. Both Ford and Honda have it all over Toyota regarding this issue. Fortunately once the X-Gauges are found out and used, the Prius-III will be back in business. SG-II’s are definitely going to be a Prius-III staple for the type of driving we do so we would not have to cycle the screens while driving.

___Good Luck

___Wayne

Hi Wayne and Dan;

Awesome previews! So chock full of goodness and detail that I just can't wait to get my hands on one.

A few personal notes of interest:

1. I have no doubt that the Prius-III is going to be far superior in my winter climate than the Gen 2... particularly with the improved warm-up times and a more efficient/effective ICE under the sheet metal.
2. I know we did not have much of a chance to try the TC (TRAC) on the Gen 3 but I am hopeful that when I get to try it, it will be less of an issue than what we have with the Gen 2's. Mind you, the 2007 are much improved and the episodes while fewer remain memorable even with good winter rubber on.
3. In the hands of a dedicated hypermiler, Kilo-tanks should now be doable with ease. Now that the psychotic bladder is gone I can overlook the inherited over-estimation of the MPG knowing that the fill-ups are less of a guess.
4. I can see the argument of HSD vs IMA dragging on for a generation or two more. I was really hoping that the Gen 3 Prius would close the book entirely and conclusively on IMA hybrids with regards to highway FE. It is pretty close though and once the community starts playing with the Prius-III "en-masse" I am almost certain we'll find an Easter egg ... just in time to please the hypermiling community.
5. On this front I am a bit impressed with the Insight-II and I wonder which of the two vehicles will offer the most to a hard-core "pull-all-stops" hypermiler? However, there's no question: The Prius III is the undisputed top FE miser for the masses. On the price front though, the HI-II may still be a good enough highway commuter... enough for it to tempt many on the market for a newer gen hybrid to save more green by going with the Insight. While I don't think they compete directly I do see an opportunity for that kind of reasoning. Would I make it? Heck, no. A Gen III Prius would arrive to my driveway sooner.
6. Heating and cooling effectiveness. I don't know if things are much different when compared to the Prius-II. Now that the dash layout has reduced the feeling of airiness I am assuming that the climate control will better manage the air flow without having to cool-warm the greenhouse first.
7. Suspension feel in cold Icy roads. On the Prius II it can feel flat and very stiff when driven in very cold weather. While this is normal for all cars, the rear suspension design may have a bit to do with this. From the videos I got in Detroit, I noticed that there were subtle design changes to the main suspension components and horizontal geometry in the rear of the vehicle and I am hoping this makes the ride a little more accommodating of mother nature and the bumpiness of the icy road. I still would like to see a fully independent rear suspension, but then where would the pack go?

Cheers;

MSantos

Nice to see a set of concise reviews rather than the somewhat
disjoint report-snippets we were getting out of the Detroit event
in January. That didn't include any driving, of course. From
what y'all say maybe the new shifter position isn't that bad
after all, but I still see the "bridge" putting a crimp in being
able to load big ol' hunks of rusty iron pipe all the way to the
front of the car.
.
So, Wayne, when do you trade in the Accord??
.
_H*

Hi Manuel:

___I think you are thinking along the same lines as I am regarding HSD vs. IMA and the Insight-II. IMA still relies on the wonderful small ICE that Honda makes so brilliantly plus it does have the current price advantage. Sort of? If the Prius-III comes in at anywhere near the Insight-II EX's price, the Insight's market potential is destroyed because it does not have the capabilities, utility or potential.

___Al, with the Corolla, Ranger, Accord and MDX paid off, one is on order but it all depends on price... Just like everything else nowadays

___Good Luck

___Wayne

http://www.google.com/url?sa=X&q=htt...CH4rC6D3FygITw

Toyota decides on Prius sales
NEW YORK — Toyota says it will not sell the 2010 Prius alongside the current model when the updated hybrid arrives at U.S. dealerships later this year, a departure from its strategy in Japan. The third-generation Prius goes on sale in the U.S. this spring. In Japan, Toyota has said it will sell both the third-generation model and the smaller existing vehicle together, a move likely meant to counter the economy-priced Honda Insight. In the U.S., Toyota says the existing Prius will remain in dealerships only until inventory runs out. Toyota prices the current Prius at $22,000 and has not yet priced the 2010.


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I wonder if this means really good prices on the remaining 2009 models??

out of curiosity can a insight II eat out a civic hybrid 2nd gen on the highway?

The Insight is geared lower so probably not.

Hi Phil

Unfortunately, no.