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Go Back   CleanMPG Forums » Diesel Automobile Owners Community » 2009 - 2013 VW Jetta TDI


2009 - 2013 VW Jetta TDI Discussion on everything and anything relating to the new Jetta TDI.

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Return of Station Wagons?

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Old 03-20-2009, 10:46 AM
Chuck Chuck is offline
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Return of Station Wagons?

The car once associated with family and utility has been resurrected in sport and luxury forms.


http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/501/magnum.jpg
Hannah Elliot - Forbes - Mar. 19, 2009

The performance emphasis will negate most of the FE saving a station wagon would have over an SUV. -- Ed.

Recent announcements from GM and Chrysler about their plans to drop several models and brands didn't seem to hinder Cadillac's resolution to press forward with the launch of its first-ever station wagon.

The Cadillac CTS Sport Wagon, due out in May, is essentially the brand's successful CTS sedan, but with additional cargo space. Cadillac reps say they're catering to luxury-minded buyers who want to downsize while maintaining practicality.

"We think the newness of it and the sort of times in which we're living, it seems like the right car at the right time and the right size," says David Caldwell, a spokesman for Cadillac.

Cadillac isn't alone. The car market has a surprising amount of new luxury station wagons. And these upscale wagons don't all have luxury prices... [Read More]
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Old 03-20-2009, 10:52 AM
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Re: Return of Station Wagons?

I'd love a FE wagon - being in a band - having room to throw all the equipment in for gigs would be awesome. Wagons make sense - but I've long since deciphered that if something makes sense to me, then more often than not, it will never make it to production.
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Old 03-20-2009, 10:59 AM
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Re: Return of Station Wagons?

I don't see all that much here.

We already have station wagons, but like the Subaru they mentioned in the article, they are classed as SUVs according to the EPA, so FE is right out the window.

Now if they actually call it a station wagon (they did mention several in the article that really are), then they have to meet the regular car FE requirements of the EPA. I can go with that just fine.

If that happens here it will be the first "true" station wagon from a major company in a very long time.
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Old 03-20-2009, 01:27 PM
ILAveo ILAveo is offline
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Re: Return of Station Wagons?

Shh! Don't tell anybody, but most minivans and SUV's functionally are station wagons with weight problems.

A fun, but rude, thing to do is to call an acquaintance's new SUV a "station wagon" (or better yet "minivan") and watch their reaction.
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Old 03-20-2009, 01:33 PM
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Re: Return of Station Wagons?

That would be funny. I know someone that buys only SUVs because she hates the minivan/station wagon stigma. Its like the simple fact that GI joes are just as much dolls as Barbies are. Action figures.....Sport Utility Vehicles.....terms probably created by the same marketing genius!
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Old 03-20-2009, 02:16 PM
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Re: Return of Station Wagons?

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Originally Posted by ILAveo View Post
Shh! Don't tell anybody, but most minivans and SUV's functionally are station wagons with weight problems.
What gets me steamed is that the only reason they call them SUVs is to avoid having to comply with better FE standards.

The HHR and Caliber are SUVs? Yup. At least that's how they are classed for FE.

We all know that they are station wagons.
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Old 03-20-2009, 03:43 PM
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Re: Return of Station Wagons?

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Originally Posted by Taliesin View Post
What gets me steamed is that the only reason they call them SUVs is to avoid having to comply with better FE standards.

The HHR and Caliber are SUVs? Yup. At least that's how they are classed for FE.

We all know that they are station wagons.
Wait what? How the hell is the Caliber classed as an SUV. I want to see some citations and I want to see them now.
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Old 03-20-2009, 03:45 PM
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Re: Return of Station Wagons?

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Originally Posted by bomber991 View Post
Wait what? How the hell is the Caliber classed as an SUV. I want to see some citations and I want to see them now.
Oops... Not the Caliber... The Magnum.

Sorry!
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Old 03-20-2009, 04:01 PM
WriConsult WriConsult is offline
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Re: Return of Station Wagons?

I think most SUV buyers get them because of the minivan/wagon stigma.

The great thing about wagons is: given the same engine, drivetrain and body (except for the back end), a wagon gets almost exactly the same FE as the sedan it's based on but is WAY more functional. And often has more cargo space than a supposedly "comparable" SUV that sucks more gas.

THe problem with the return of wagons is that "given the same engine, drivetrain and body" isn't always happening. A lot of the new wagons are showing up as as bloated "crossovers" with jacked-up bodies, AT-only, optional (or standard) AWD and bigger engines than their sedan counterparts. And guess what? They suck more gas. This only reinforces the FALSE popular belief that practical vehicles must necessarily be less fuel efficient than sedans. Even Mazda refuses to offer the more efficient 2.0L engine on the Mazda3.

Recent Yays in the wagon world:
  • VW Jetta TDI SportWagen! Current car review articles might argue the finer points about whether the TDI or the Prius is a better "family sedan", but they utterly miss the point by forgetting about the existence of the wagon. If you get the SportWagen, the TDI absolutely blows the Prius away in terms of utility. If you don't need the extra space by all means get the Prius. But if you do, the TDI is greener per cubic foot.
  • Hyundai Elantra Touring. This new-for-09 model slipped under my radar until last week. There are a lot of small, reasonably FE wagons on the market these days (Fit, Matrix, Versa, Mazda3, etc.), but except for the TDI the midsize and near-midsize wagons (Subaru, Volvo, VW Passat, Scion xB Gen2, Mazda5) generally get EPA combined ratings in the low 20s. Or worse. Hyundai has kept the drivetrain options reasonable on the Touring, and although the resulting 26mpg EPA combined figure isn't as good as many of the smaller wagons, it's the best in its class (other than TDI and the FFH/MMH/MTH) and only 2mpg less than the Versa.

Recent Nays:
  • Toyota Venza. As the wagon version of the Camry, this one is BIG. Given the amount of cargo space 22mpg is actually pretty respectable. But I still have to call it out as a NAY because of drivetrain inflation: only the 3.5L engine is offered. Based on the ratings of the various Camry variants, if the 2.4L engine were offered we'd be looking at EPA numbers of 24 or 25mpg. And from a hypermiler's perspective I'm disappointed at the lack of an MT offering, although in this segment it's hardly a surprise. Also, the Camry is offered as a hybrid -- when do we get a Venza hybrid?!
  • Volvo V70. I've always given Volvo (along with Subaru and VW) props for having always offered wagon versions of its sedans through thick and thin, even through the wagon "dark ages" from around 1996-2003. But sadly, as of 2008 the V70 is only available with AT. That leaves Volvo with zero MT wagon offerings in North America anymore. Boo!
  • VW Passat Wagon. As of 2009 Volkswagen -- Volkswagen -- has dropped the MT from the Passat lineup (including the sedan too). To me that is a staggering development. I'm not surprised to hear this from from Volvo, but from VW? Come on! I know MTs only make up 3% of the total US car market anymore, but still ... Boo!

And finally, Subaru gets both a YAY and NAY from me (and I say all this as a 3-time Subaru owner)
- Yay for still offering MTs in all their wagons. Unlike almost everyone else.
- Yay for developing a fuel efficient diesel.
- Nay for not bringing the diesel to the USA.
- Nay for sticking to their AWD-only mantra. Subaru didn't drop their 2WD models until 1996 (not that long ago to someone like me) and the AWD system still imposes a 2-3mpg penalty. That might be OK if it were on the diesel model with FE comparable to the VW TDIs, but is NOT ok when paired with their fuel-sucking 2.5L gas engines. FE is the primary reason Subaru lost me as a customer.
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Old 03-20-2009, 04:18 PM
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Re: Return of Station Wagons?

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Originally Posted by WriConsult View Post
Recent Nays:[list][*]Toyota Venza. As the wagon version of the Camry, this one is BIG...
Are they trying to call this a wagon version of the Camry?

www.fueleconomy.gov calls it a SUV.

Yeah, it's not just the American companies doing this to us.
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