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Why Gasoline-Blooded Enthusiasts Will Learn to Love Hybrids

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Old 02-12-2009, 07:59 AM
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Right Lane Cruiser Right Lane Cruiser is offline
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Why Gasoline-Blooded Enthusiasts Will Learn to Love Hybrids

A jet-powered hybrid certainly sounds sexy, no?

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/501/Cadillac_Converj_Concept.jpg
Frank Markus - Motor Trend - Feb 11, 2009

The author is correct in that hybrids need to appeal to a large cross-section of the population. --Ed.

Motor Trend was recently asked to present a keynote speech at the Society of Automotive Engineers' annual Hybrid Vehicle Technologies Symposium, and I was tapped to deliver it. I decided to take the true outsider's view -- that of a car-guy horsepower freak who isn't the least bit interested in hybrids, and talk about what it may take to win my ilk over. Of course, in real life I do kind of enjoy driving hybrids, but only in a geeky, hypermiling kind of way. But there's a lot going on in the aftermarket and the motorsports arena that could win the unabashed speed freaks among us over to the hybrid cause. I presented these developments as a roadmap to the car-nut's heart.

Of course, for starters there's a plainly obvious mathematical attraction to hybrid vehicles. In a 35-mpg CAFE world, selling four milquetoast earth-hugging nine-second-0-60-mph Malibu Hybrids allows the sale of one fire-breathing 3.3-second Corvette ZR1 without incurring any... [Read More]
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Old 02-12-2009, 07:23 PM
hobbit hobbit is offline
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Re: Why Gasoline-Blooded Enthusiasts Will Learn to Love Hybrids

"Milquetoast" ??! I'll give him an earful about elegance and
precision and the "BSFC mound" any day.
.
_H*
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Old 02-13-2009, 03:17 AM
kngkeith kngkeith is offline
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Re: Why Gasoline-Blooded Enthusiasts Will Learn to Love Hybrids

At first I disregarded the importance of this article. Hobbit’s comment prompted more contemplation, and I began to understand more a vital pivot point on which broad adoption of hybrids relies. I think elegance and precision describes hybrids beautifully. The advanced engineering is profound. But these cars are not tapping into some emotional elements present in a large segment of our population.
I have operated almost every type of vehicle out there- from 650 enduros to bulldozers (exceptions: Italian supercars, 6 figure luxury cars, and road graders). The most satisfying experiences for me are when I feel most connected with the vehicle and its performance. My favorite car is the Miata, because it needs me to get the most out of it. I enjoy Hypermiling the Saturn, the mechanical action of p&g, fas, etc involves me. I even have a favorite straight truck chassis (pathetic isn’t it?) There is something about electronics, whether it’s the drive system, traction control, stability control, or ABS that further isolates me from the road and its conditions. They are a turn off. Simple is good for me. I can’t logically defend that notion because the advanced systems have proven their worth in safety and reliability. It’s just emotion.

Not sure how to tap into the “need to be ready for anything” suv/pickup crowd. Maybe position the hybrid as a generator that happens to seat 4 comfortably. A 220v outlet for welding equipment might help.

The good news is the author of the article cites more of the advanced capabilities of systems and their use in motorsports, which probably will broaden the appeal of hybrids to younger “electronic” generation drivers. The solution maybe is to make hybrids more exciting. Actually, the adoption of hybrids may be boosted by the fact that they are an electronic generation. Does that make my first paragraph irrelevant?
Keith
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Old 02-13-2009, 06:32 AM
lightfoot lightfoot is offline
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Re: Why Gasoline-Blooded Enthusiasts Will Learn to Love Hybrids

I agree with both hobbit and kngkeith. "Performance" defined as SOP acceleration and cornering is entrenched, and redefining it will be difficult. You can still have handling with a hybrid (see "Insight I") and MPG can replace acceleration, but it's a harder sell to people, at least before they try it. It may be worth thinking about what makes the Insight I MT such a fun car to drive, with lots of driver involvement (especially with MIMA), and build on that for future vehicles. This seems to be what Honda is trying to do with the CR-Z. Certainly for me the Insight replaced all my performance tendancies (that I previously satisfied with a motorcycle) almost seamlessly.

In the longer term, higher gas prices and poorer economic times may lead people into motorcycles to satisfy their speed/acceleration cravings. Today people seeking performance generally trend towards smaller vehicles (sports cars). There certainly are some larger vehicles aimed at performance, but those seeking the ultimate in performance accept that they will end up in a smaller car. Some people are finding the ultimate rush in motorcycles right now, and that trend may increase.

Hybridization of race cars is great for many reasons. The holeshots of the electric dragracer make me wonder if the greatest advantage of the electric motor will be in generating massive torque exiting turns, and whether the F1 folks will bias the KERS usage that way. And then tweak the ICE for top end HP (balancing ICE's between low-end torque and high-end HP is always a difficult compromise). If you get a few mph advantage coming out of a turn, you compound that benefit as you maintain that few mph advantage down the following straight, and it really adds up. Roadracers focus on gearing, etc, to get the fastest exit from the turn preceding the longest straight on a course, and then turn successively to the turn before the next shortest, etc. Perhaps F1 will deploy KERS selectively on turn exits, since the rules limit the amount of boost per lap.
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Old 02-13-2009, 08:30 AM
hobbit hobbit is offline
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Re: Why Gasoline-Blooded Enthusiasts Will Learn to Love Hybrids

I remembered something else about my own approach to driving that
might be useful input for discussion, or might have you all thinking
I'm a raving nutcase... but as best as I can describe it, I treat
a car like the large heavy object it is, and that getting it to
go, navigate, and stop is sort of a bigger deal than it really is.
.
Pick just about any movie that's got a large conveyance involved in
its plot somehow. Titanic? How about many space-adventure type
movies? Where you have ten minutes of sequence with stirring music
passing the viewpoint over the big ship and reviewing it stem to
stern, and then another one later when we finally have our mission,
undock, and engage the warp core or those big ol' crosshead steam
monsters or even set a bunch of sails the right way. It's a careful
process, requiring a lot of thought and coordination between humans
and machines, and even if the end goal is to attain "ludicrous speed"
it happens in a very planned fashion.
.
Or even consider trains. They accelerate and decelerate at rather
modest and consistent rates, with plenty of planning ahead for any
station stop. When conditions warrant, i.e. everybody is on board
and the door interlocks have latched and everybody's checked in,
the train engineer applies torque to wheels, and *waits* for the
results. This isn't a "performance" vehicle, even if it's a bullet
train that will reach 200+ MPH between cities. And you don't try to
beat lights or outrun the other guy when you're driving one. Airplanes
and pilots are generally the same way, with minor exceptions here and
there but they don't keep their tickets long. Now *there's* one area
where following distance is key.
.
So ... that's how I drive. Like it takes a small act of Congress
to authorize putting the thing in "D" and beginning to move, and
then all subsequent navigation becomes designed to minimize the
lateral G-force that any passenger would feel. Sure, sometimes
I'll pull a nice turn apex when nobody's around but generally I
can drive the groceries home or a big load of stuff somewhere and
be completely confident that nothing's going to roll around inside.
My little thrills come from pulling a nice zero-fuel glide all the
way through a busy, complex highway merge with people going every
which way and not having to change speed while still helping others
sort out where they need to go, or beginning another "burn" at a
particular point and having that speed increase perfectly match what's
going on around me to continue on down the road to the next one. I
know that in some cases, my little well-calculated orbital mechanics
create a little "island of calm" on the highways that propagates out
to the traffic around me, but there are enough aggressive, performance-
styled drivers mixed up in the mess and pulling abrupt, unpredictable
"fighter plane" moves that it's hard to spot the subtle effects.
.
So the performance driver wants the vehicle to be a nimble extension
of his own body, like the basketball players I touch on in my little
fuel-economy rant for the public. The energy-efficient driver wants
to balance energy consumption and moving the massive weight of the
ship, and not squander fuel on excess movement or speed changes.
Each requires a certain amount of thought to do well, with the
"performance" side likely containing a few more snap decisions that
may turn out badly, and each brings its own kind of enjoyment to a
particular person. The huge problem kicks in when the enjoyment of
the performance style is thwarted somehow, like heavy traffic, and
then the resulting frustrations are misdirected at other road users.
.
Remember "Asteroids"? You have to burn fuel to move, *and* you have
to burn fuel to turn and stop. In the absence of big hairy rocks
bearing down on you there's a fuel-efficient way to do that and there's
a wasteful way to do it. And there are opportunities to try and navigate
through the rocks via more or less turning and burning along thew way.
The downside of how Asteroids was designed is that you get unlimited fuel.
.
_H*
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