MPG Race is good for everyone

[xcel]

Toyota comments on the Ford Fusion Hybrid vs._TCH vs. Prius-III.

Jon F. Thompson – Open Road Blog – Jan. 26, 2009

2010 FFH -- 39 mpgUS combined. 99.8 and 11.8 cu. ft. passenger/cargo volume respectively.

2009 TCH -- 34 mpgUS combined. 101.4 and 10.6 cu. ft. passenger/cargo volume respectively.

2010 Prius-III -- 50 mpgUS combined. 97 and 18 cu. ft. passenger/cargo volume respectively.

"Ford, Toyota squabble about 'midsize' hybrids," reads the headline in a recent issue of USA Today.

Well, fine, but it’s not exactly a squabble. What’s going on here is that we respectfully and cordially disagree on the definition of a midsize car. This is important when we’re discussing the EPA fuel-economy ratings of vehicles like the Camry Hybrid, the Prius and the Ford Fusion.

The folks at Ford are pleased that their Fusion hybrid, rated at 41 mpg/city, has better EPA fuel economy estimates than our Camry Hybrid, which is EPA-rated at 33 mpg/city. We point out that while that’s true, the Camry is bigger than the Fusion. Meanwhile, the 2010 Prius, also classified as a midsize car with almost exactly the same internal capacity as the Fusion hybrid, and thus we think a more appropriate comparison, is rated at 50 mpg/city. Ford demurs.

But look, here’s the deal: There’s a larger piece of business going on here, and it’s one in which we all can rejoice because no matter your brand preference, it points toward a national and societal good. It is that automotive fuel economy is on the rise. Not everywhere, and not as quickly as some might like. Technology, after all, rarely makes quantum leaps. More likely, it takes incremental steps.

But those steps are being made by almost every manufacturer, and unless those steps get diverted from their current path, they promise to lead, eventually, toward this logical destination: reduced dependence on petroleum-based energy.

An additional piece of business is that with fuel economy on the rise, manufacturers are using their fuel-economy to compete for customers. This is happening, now, in the face of fuel prices that are roughly half what they were in the summer of 2008. But it’s also happening with the full recognition of nearly everyone that today’s low gas prices probably won’t last, that they’ll again, sooner or later, revert back to those nosebleed prices – and maybe beyond. When that happens, the competition will become intense - and much more meaningful... [Read More]

[jenriquez]

Yes, I'm personally pleased to see companies 'bickering' over what constitutes a midsize vehicle for sake of fuel efficiency bragging rights. I really hope the Ford Fusion does great and that it entices Ford to produce more units and hopefully bring the price down a bit. At the same time, I hope this pushes Toyota to make their Hybrid Camry more fuel efficient because at the end, we all win with better FE ratings.

[xcel]

Hi Jenriquez:

___I was thinking the exact same thing while reading this story.

___Good Luck

___Wayne

[flatty]

Yes, we're all in the same race and everyone gets a trophy.

Now, what about that cheesey announcement of 150(!) Toyota PHEV to counter Volt's introduction?

Nice job, Ford.

[w4wfm]

I totally agree with all the above comments, but when will gas go up enough so that people start driving reasonably again.

I am tired of the A-holes tailgating me so closely. I think I like $4/gal gas just because of the effect it has on everyone's attitude when we drive.

Frank

[lightfoot]

How effective are claims like Ford's in getting people to buy their cars? You hear them embedded in many different mfrs' TV ads all the time. Things like "the XXX has the best city mpg of any crew-cab midsized pickup with three cupholders made in America today!!!". Sounds impressive until you actually stop and think about how other offerings one might consider have been excluded. Do these claims actually work? Do people actually shop by the government categories, or do they take a wider view?

[xcel]

Hi John:

___Until the FFH FE numbers were released, I would recommend the TCH over any other mid-sized car (sedan) on the market. Now that the EPA estimates have been released, I have had a good look over the specs and spoke with many who have driven it, I would only recommend the FFH. That 5 mpg over the TCH really pushed it over the top imho.

___Good Luck

___Wayne

[lightfoot]

Originally Posted by xcel

Hi John:

___Until the FFH FE numbers were released, I would recommend the TCH over any other mid-sized car (sedan) on the market. Now that the EPA estimates have been released, I have had a good look over the specs and spoke with many who have driven it, I would only recommend the FFH. That 5 mpg over the TCH really pushed it over the top imho.

___Good Luck

___Wayne

Me too!

But what I was getting at is: would people who are considering FFH and TCH ignore the Prius III just because it is not classed as a mid-sized car?? I thought from the reports it is nearly the same interior size as the FFH??

I realize that the mags will do comparisons within the categories (though sometimes CR will recommend considering a particular vehicle in another category). But when I am car shopping (a rare event admittedly) I'll ponder vehicles from several different categories. Before I got the Outback I considered small Volvo wagons, Audi wagons, VW Jetta TDI wagon, CRV, RAV4, Forester, Impreza wagon. Had I known I could carry boats on it and had I waited a year, the Prius II would have been a serious contender even though from a completely different category. I looked hard at the mpg ratings, but not just within a single category. Is this unusual, or do other people shop this way??? I just don't know.

[rdprice64]

Originally Posted by lightfoot

Is this unusual, or do other people shop this way??? I just don't know.

I totally agree with your shopping method. We looked at the TCH, the Prius, and the FEH when we were deciding. We chose the FEH because it had more backseat room for my 2 teens and 1 tween, plus the FEH was less $$ initially. In hindsight, I could have more than made up the $$ difference with the Prius' better MPG, but the TCH and FEH are fairly comparable in MPG. And the kids could have just squeezed in a little more

I think the FFH is a good entry into the competition, but Ford is pricing it too high to compete with the Prius III, so they only want people to compare the $$ against the TCH.

[mdensch@charter.net]

"I think the FFH is a good entry into the competition, but Ford is pricing it too high to compete with the Prius III, so they only want people to compare the $$ against the TCH.

Toyota hasn't release pricing information about the Prius III yet, so we can only speculate at this point. The FFH starts around $27,000 (and should qualify for the federal tax credit) but has a fairly high level of content. The current Prius starts at $22,000 but typically goes out the door for more and no longer qualifies for the tax credit. It's apples and oranges, but at the end of the day the two probably would come out close to one another.

One other point: Ford advertises the FFH as the most fuel efficient mid-size SEDAN in America. The Prius is a hatchback, not a sedan.