Cat & Cummins 2010

[kngkeith]

Back in June Catepillar diesel announced that it will not make engines for trucks once EPA 2010 kicks in. They had a large maket share, but most engines went into PACCAR (Peterbilt, Kenworth) trucks. PACCAR is developing their own big bore engines. International, another manufacturer who installed Cat engines, has started to offer its own big bore engines too. CAT could see their market share diminish, no longer justifying the expense of getting engines 2010 compliant.

In September Cummins said its largest truck engine, the ISX, will use Urea based SCR to be 2010 compliant. Previously Cummins planned to add another EGR.

Sorry, not timely, but relevant.
Keith

[seftonm]

Interesting. Is Cat out permanently or are they just taking more time to come up with a solution? This may mean that AdBlue starts appearing at truck stops, making it a bit easier to find for people with Bluetec cars.

[kngkeith]

Cat's out of truck engines for good, apparently.
Yes, urea should be easier to find in a couple years. The official line for Cummins is that they are expecting Urea easier to find, as all other manufacturers are going this route. Even Cummins smaller ISM (10.9L) was going the urea route. I originally liked the idea of not having to worry about another fluid, but given the expected mpg difference over a second EGR setup, its a no-brainer.

Keith

[kngkeith]

Turns out that International is using increased EGR instead of SCR for their new line of big bore engines. And they are requiring Cummins to do the same for engines installed in Internationals. They cite the potentially high cost of DEF as a disincentive to go the SCR route. My gut tells me this is a gamble they will lose. Largely because Daimler will be better at marketing the virtues of their BlueTec system in Freightliner.

Keith

[kngkeith]

An update.
In January International unveiled their new MaxxForce-15. It's a rebadged Caterpillar C15 using all EGR for emissions compliance. International had to go this route because Cummins decided against engineering an all EGR solution for its big bore ISX, currently offered in Internationals. 14-15L engines are in the majority of OTR trucks today.

International is using credits earned by it's smaller diesels that are under current emissions limits. Its MaxxForce-11, MaxxForce-13- derived from MAN in Germany, and MaxxForce-15 will not be 2010 compliant until 2012, necessitating the use of the credits.

Keith

[phoebeisis]

ADblue is what they call the urea solution? Guess that is a lot better than other possible names.
Urea and urea solutions should be dirt cheap- a big plus.

Keith, what was the mpg difference-5-10%? I don't think anything that hurts mpg would even be considered. I'm sure MBs urea injection system was expensive to develope, but it should sure be simpler to squirt something(a very cheap something) into the exhaust than to pump more exhaust back through the engine.

Why is anything other than urea injection even being considered? Has MB gotten some sort of patent on urea injection that is hard to bypass-meaning you have to pay royalty/licensing fees?

Thanks,
Charlie

[kngkeith]

Hi Charlie-
The generic name is DEF, for Diesel Emission Fluid, or Diesel Exhaust Fluid. AdBlue is just a trade name for the Urea Fluid that the Europeon Auto Manufacturers association uses for their product. Other brands are available.
M-B doesn't have exclusive rights to the technology. Cummins and Volvo engines will use SCR too.
DEF consumption is at a 3-4% rate for trucks in Europe, should be the same here. The additional cost of the fluid is offset by fuel savings if diesel costs $4/gal.
DEF does not have expensive ingredients but suscepibility to contamination and distribution add to the cost.

International is banking on diesel staying under that amount for the next 3-5? years, making their all EGR platform more cost effective.

Keith

[sjensrochow@comcast.net]

I'm looking for hypermiling techniques in big diesel trucks
Steve Jens- Rochow, Ft. Lauderdale

[npauli]

Originally Posted by sjensrochow@comcast.net

I'm looking for hypermiling techniques in big diesel trucks
Steve Jens- Rochow, Ft. Lauderdale

How big? Pickup, class 8, or something inbetween? What have you got?

The same techniques described here for other vehicles work for pickups like mine too. However, I'm more nervous about things like P&G w/ FAS in my truck because I'm worried about durability of engine components. Turbos, for example weren't designed for a hot shot down every half mile or so.

Keeping the engine up at temp seems to make a big difference too - maybe more important with big trucks than with little cars with 4cyl engines.