Simple device, major fuel savings

[diamondlarry]

I say that my son's(CobraPond) car is a perfect example of higher performance/engine power doesn't have to equal lower FE. It would be really cool to see a few more universities duplicate the results though. As for electrical fields not having any effects on non-magnetic materials, why do they use eddy currents to separate different non magnetic materials at recycling centers like I saw on the Discovery network recently?

[Ophbalance]

This was posted a ways back as well from information I had sent to Wayne. The big difference between this, and most snake oil, is this was well documented by Temple. The intention being that other teams can take up this information and try to reproduce their results. The downside is that they mainly did their testing on an older Merc diesel, and were working with a trucking company in Reading to fit their trucks with the device. The point out that it should work for a gasoline powered car, but their testing was mostly on diesel.

[diamondlarry]

This would be very appealing to truckers as even a small % increase would be huge to them.

[The Fridge]

Originally Posted by Ophbalance

This was posted a ways back as well from information I had sent to Wayne. The big difference between this, and most snake oil, is this was well documented by Temple. The intention being that other teams can take up this information and try to reproduce their results. The downside is that they mainly did their testing on an older Merc diesel, and were working with a trucking company in Reading to fit their trucks with the device. The point out that it should work for a gasoline powered car, but their testing was mostly on diesel.

I saw this a while back also, I haven't read any of Temple's documentation and I had a good bit of skepticism when I saw it.
However, the idea that reducing viscosity results in finer spray seems intuitive to me.
The question is how much can you do it with Gasoline which is already pretty low viscosity.
Other misc thoughts on the subject;
-Many liquids have lower viscosity at higher temperatures - I suppose this has probably been studied with gasoline. Maybe somebody could figure out gasoline vapor injection.... (but I suppose that would displace air volume so for max power maybe the point is to keep it the finest liquid droplets possible. For max efficiency? - since we're not trying to hit max power, just get the most out of each BTU...)
-SVO people have to heat their fuel for viscosity reasons...
-Any other ways to reduce viscosity in gasoline?
-Does anyone have any links pertinent to the efficiency gains from reduced droplet size? How far can it go? Where are we with current tech?

[worthywads]

At least one of the dozens of magnet marketers is using the Temple studies as proof of magnets worth.

http://vortexfuelsaver.com/literature_32.html

"And finally, Professor Tao, along with Tang and Bell, publish their newest paper in Energy & Fuels, wherein they build a device and test it on a Mercedes-Benz 300D for six months, with significant fuel mileage increases. To be clear, this device is NOT a Vortex Fuel Saver, though the same fuel saving physics would apply."

All magnet marketers should make this same claim.

[brick]

Originally Posted by pcs0snq

So unless your skeptic position has grown into denial of decent proof, how can you say this is less then true and good news?

Oh, I don't know. It could have something to do with the fact that skepticism, by definition, means not blindly accepting something as fact until you have seen more evidence than the claims of just one person or group? Even big-name university research is imperfect, which is why peer-reviewed literature is such an important part of science. Maybe it works, but I want to see independent verification before I get all excited about it.

[Jough96Accord]

I like the idea of heating the fuel before it gets to the injectors. I sure it already happens to an extent, just from the engine warming the injectors and the injectors warming the fuel. But after getting looking up what SVO means and veggie people, I've found out that the veggie people have a real task when it comes to running different types of fats/oils/grease in their diesel motors. The goal of the heat is to thin the fuel enough to get a good spray and burn the fuel. The effect would probably be less with gasoline, but I'm still willing to give it a shot. So I guess this is my next task, build a cost effective fuel heater (next to free, use only exhaust heat). I'm probably going to start right now!

[The Fridge]

Originally Posted by Jough96Accord

So I guess this is my next task, build a cost effective fuel heater (next to free, use only exhaust heat). I'm probably going to start right now!

I'd suggest checking what temp it vaporizes at under FI pressures and making sure you stay below that.
Also, have a couple good fire extinguishers handy...

[diamondlarry]

Originally Posted by The Fridge

I'd suggest checking what temp it vaporizes at under FI pressures and making sure you stay below that.
Also, have a couple good fire extinguishers handy...

As long as you keep the line pressurized there wouldn't be a problem as long as you stay below the pressure of the fuel pump so it doesn't vapor-lock.

[brick]

After reading the paper, I have some serious misgivings about their testing methodology with that MB diesel. They claim to have set it up to run at a fuel consumption rate of 500g/hr and measured the resulting power output. The first problem is that 500g/hr corresponds to a fuel energy flux through lines of ~6.4kw, for an expected shaft horsepower output in the range of ~2.5kW or 3.4hp. That's pretty much idling, which does not reflect an engine running condition that plays a significant role in a fuel economy test. They ought to be testing at much higher power outputs.

The other problem is that they claim to measure power on the order of 0.4hp (believable for an idling engine) but they give it to four decimal places. What test equipment can really measure power to the wheels of a car with that degree of precision? It isn't realistic. I bet the temperature of the lubricants and other variables related to the driveline are capable of generating measurement uncertainty in excess of the 0.1hp difference. Again, they should have been testing at much higher power levels!

The Cornaglia Iveco data is a bit more compelling but still wonky. For one thing I would like to know how they claim 4.7% improvement at 1.3kV/mm when BSFC is unchanged at 220.1g/kWh. The BSFC must be a typo or something. And I would like to see a measurement system analysis on that dyno given that they are still dealing in tenths of a kilowatt from one condition to the next. Perhaps a more extensive paper will go into greater detail.

As for the 6 months of road testing, we all know how that can be influenced.