Detroit 3 ask up to $40 billion in loans

[xcel]

If these companies don't have access to money at reasonable interest rates, they won't survive long enough to worry whether they can meet the fuel-economy standards of 2020 or 2030.

Tom Walsh - Detroit Free Press - Aug. 5, 2008

$30,000 PHEV Aptera

The $40 Billion bailout. Why not give Tesla, Aptera or even Hybridtechnologies a few $Million as they have a better than even chance of paying it off vs. Detroit? -- Ed.

Detroit's three automakers are urging Congress to make as much as $35 billion to $40 billion in low-cost loans available during the next two to three years to assure that the companies survive long enough to retool and build a new generation of fuel-efficient vehicles.

Chief executives Rick Wagoner, Alan Mulally and Robert Nardelli -- of General Motors Corp., Ford Motor Co. and Chrysler LLC, respectively -- talked Friday and agreed that access to capital is their most critical short-term need during this volatile period of high fuel prices and slumping SUV and truck sales, sources told the Free Press.

Top lobbyists for GM, Ford and Chrysler followed up Sunday with phone calls to leaders of Michigan's congressional delegation -- including U.S. Sens. Debbie Stabenow and Carl Levin, plus Reps. John Dingell and Sander Levin -- to drive the point home. All three Detroit companies are hemorrhaging cash and having trouble borrowing.

On Monday, Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama proposed $4 billion to help Detroit's automakers build the cars of the future. Obama's advisers called it a first step. Stabenow told me some of the money would go to battery research, but a big chunk of it could be used to help leverage loans of more than $10 billion for retooling plants… [Read More]

[chilimac02]

Please don't give it to them...

[Chuck]

At the very least, have them grilled on Capitol Hill about why they acted like every other vehicle sold would be a land barge forever?

[2003protege]

Grilling doesn't really amount to anything imho as we saw when oil execs made the trip to DC.

[A024523]

Don't loan them my tax dollars, we won't get it back! Let big oil extend the loan, I would think they have a vested interest to keep the big 3 alive to crank out FSP 's

[southtrek55]

Some of us are old enough to remember Congress's bailout of Chrysler back in the late '70's. At that time it was an interest free loan which was paid back on time. I don't see that happening now though. In that time frame, CEO Lee Iacocca was the beneficary of indirect beneficary of dropping fuel costs. At the same time he was able to return the company to profitability with a host of Reliants, Horizons and anything he could wring out of the K-car platform. None of them were fuel efficent by contemporary standards. Their chief virtue was their cheapness.

The manufacturers have a lot of factors which they didn't have to deal with a generation ago too. The cost of supporting retirees which I think adds $1500 to the cost of any GM product. There are the weight penalities required by additional safety requirements. (though I think these are dealt with by the same manufacturers overseas).

I'd like to know why our domestic companies can't or won't produce the same fuel efficent autos they sell overseas. In the alternative, why can't they work with existing small companies to get them past their production issues to get their products to market faster?

[azraelswrd]

I wonder if they really have a PLAN if they have that much money... or will it magically disappear into a dozen different division and projects? Accountability (and maybe an accountant) is what I want to see first.

[Chuck]

I know grilling does not fix the situation, but it's kind of like victims wanting to hear a confession...something like: "we just wanted to make big money the next quarter selling as many Explorers as possible and figured I'd be retired by the time the boom was over..."

[xcel]

Hi Chuck:

___There will be nothing coming out of any of them that we haven’t heard the “multiple” times the oil execs have been asked to be interviewed by congress. It was a ploy then and it will be a ploy for the cameras and political careers in the future. You will not hear any confession or other such non-sense.

___Here are the issues I see. Peak oil is only just starting to reach out and touch us. Wait until this thing goes “postal” and there is nothing in the Big 2.5’s stable to counteract it other than the Volt. If the Big 2.5 believe they can survive on the Volt, maybe they know a lot more than the average CleanMPG member does? Unfortunately, I have not seen that?

___Next would be what they have available today? Prices started rising linearly about 3.5 years ago. The average new car takes about 3 to 4 years to design. So where are those new fuel efficient cars? The Big 3 failed to plan and now we are stuck with junk. The Focus, Cobalt and … (there is not a Chrysler product) to go up against $4.00 gasoline? That is like sending up a minor leaguer to pitch in the World Series. Ford is planning on a 20% increase across the board with ECOBoost. A 20% increase? That doesn’t bring us to 2004 let alone 2010? They will not bring over their Euro diesels because the emissions control costs are to high. They will not build hybrids because hybridization is to costly. So much for the Prius killing Super Diesels out of Europe or a decent hybrid from any of them other than Toyota. The funny thing is Prius’ are going for about $25,000 on average. I have seen F-150’s for less than $14K? Maybe the Big 2.5 better reconsider what is expensive and what is not. GM’s 20 mpg Two-Mode does not cut it at $3.00 + per either.

___Tomorrow? Ford and GM’s DI turbo’ed small ICE’s in B and C-Class sized automobiles will not approach the standards needed. $4.00 fuel is what Europe had 5 years ago and they had a host of small and fuel efficient diesels, they had no F150’s or Silverado’s (NONE) and even their P/U’s had small fuel efficient diesels. Euro Ranger. GM believes a 4.5L Diesel will save their P/U truck markets and again, far to big an CI-ICE and way to low FE for big DieselB prices. Additionally, by 2012, we will be lucky to enjoy sub $4.00 fuel and more than likely, it will be $6 or more. The Big 2.5 offer nothing for that level of cost. Honda and Toyota barely do.

___CAFE’ standards and 2020. Big deal. The Big 2.5 are going broke now with their present product mix and standards that have not been changed in well over a decade. 2020’s 27 mpg real world (not the BS 35 mpg CAFÉ congress believes) is where the Big 2.5 are targeting when the targets should be directed at Europe’s $10 per today. Maybe 50 mpg?

___Good Luck

___Wayne

[jamesqf]

Originally Posted by Delta Flyer

I know grilling does not fix the situation, but it's kind of like victims wanting to hear a confession...

I think it's more like Alcoholics Anonymous & similar addiction treatment programs. Before anything else, the user has to admit to himself that he really does have a problem. I don't think the US automakers have gotten anywhere near that point yet, because they're still talking about marginal improvements - things like hybrid SUVs and the Volt, when they really need to look at the Aptera as a model.