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Europe receives the second generation Honda Jazz (Fit here)

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Old 07-28-2008, 06:50 PM
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Europe receives the second generation Honda Jazz (Fit here)

DSG like 6-speed sounds great. 5-speed MT gear ratios sound like another mistake… again

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/501/2009_Honda_Jazz.jpg
Wayne Gerdes - CleanMPG- July 28, 2008

2009 European Honda Jazz -- Nice improvements with a disappointment.

Honda's all-new Jazz 5-door hatchback achieves class leading interior space but more importantly, significantly improved fuel economy with the HCH-II’s 1.4-litre with i-SHIFT and an available 1.2-litre iDSI.

The new Jazz retains the concepts of the previous Jazz with its center fuel tank layout and Magic Seats giving it a world beating interior flexibility. With theses best features retained, the new Jazz brings change to every area, raising the bar even further and promising to expand on its success in the super-mini segment. The previous generation was given more than fifty awards and has sold over two million around the world since its 2001 launch. Expect the second generation to do even better.

A slightly larger, ‘cab forward' style body brings better visibility and an even more spacious interior to the benefit of rear seat passengers with more legroom. The Magic Seats now drop down in one easy action and their versatility is now complemented by a new Double-Trunk feature in the luggage bay.

Safety

Safety upgrades in the second generation Jazz includes the recently introduced Advanced Compatibility Engineering (ACE) body structure, active front seat head restraints and VSA. Larger wheels, revised suspension and a longer wheelbase/wider track bring greater agility while enhancing ride comfort. And new 89 HP, 1.2-litre and 99 HP 1.4-litre i-VTEC engines deliver better performance characteristics while boosting fuel economy to exceptional levels – 46.1 mpgUS (5-speed MT) and 46.1/44.4 mpgUS (6-speed DSG/5-speed MT) combined, respectively.

Greater economy and lower emission from two new engines

New, more powerful gasoline engines, capable of outstanding economy, are designed to appeal to customers who might be downsizing as well as those looking to achieve fuel economy comparable to diesel powered models. Adopting Honda's VTEC technology (Variable Valve Timing and Lift Electronic Control), the new 1.2 and 1.4-litre four-cylinder engines are connected to either a 5-speed manual transmission or, on 1.4 models, Honda's i-SHIFT 6-speed automated manual transmission which includes steering wheel-mounted paddle shifters.

A new SIL (Shift Indicator Light) fitted to manual models, similar to that found on the new Accord, provides a visual prompt of the best gear shift points to maximize fuel economy.

The bad news… 5-speed manual transmission

The 1.2 and 1.4-litre models are equipped with an evolution of the previous 5-speed manual transmission with gear ratios optimized for a more sporty driving experience while ensuring mediocre fuel economy. Maybe someday Honda will get it but as of this writing, they are completely lost with fuel costs in Europe approaching and in some cases breaching $10.00 per gallon USD

i-SHIFT (6-speed automated manual transmission)

As well as a 5-speed manual gearbox, the 1.4-litre engine can be teamed up with Honda's latest i-SHIFT transmission. The first time a 6-speed automated manual transmission has been offered in this vehicle class, the gearbox offers better fuel economy than is possible with either a true automatic or a CVT (continuously variable transmission).

The unit is a development of the system first fitted to the Civic, with improvements made including; reduced gear change times, smoother shifts and more intelligent automatic mode shift logic.

Cab forward styling with increased dimensions

Overall height remains the same, but the length and wheelbase of the new Jazz are up by 2 inches. It is also slightly wider - by Ύ of an inch. All aid in increased handling stability. Despite the increased wheelbase, the turning diameter is still just 32.1 ft.

Safer ACE body structure

Even more efficient safety performance results from the introduction of the ACE (Advanced Compatibility Engineering) body structure, a concept that is being progressively rolled out across the Honda range. Its structure, in particular a front polygonal main frame, helps to reduce the negative effect of misalignment between vehicles of different sizes and construction and multiple energy absorbing pathways disperse impact energy to prevent cabin deformation.

Standard on all models are dual front and side airbags, full length side curtain airbags and three-point seatbelts in all five seating positions, those in the front with dual-stage pretensioners. The front passenger airbag can also be deactivated to allow a rear facing child seat to be fitted to the front seat and for the first time Jazz is equipped with seatbelt reminders for both the front and rear seats. Front seats are also fitted with active headrests to minimize the potential for whiplash injuries.

Larger cabin with even better functionality

The interior layout of the new Jazz allows rear seat passengers an extra 1.4 inches of knee room, while the distance between front and rear passengers is up by 1.2 inches. The slightly wider body also means shoulder room increases by 1.7inches the front and rear.

Reduced width A-pillars, a larger windscreen and quarter windows three times the size of those in the previous model allows greater visibility.
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Old 07-28-2008, 07:19 PM
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Re: Europe receives the second generation Honda Jazz (Fit here)

What can we expect. If you did a poll nation wide I'd expect most people to say they would prefer a slightly faster car than one that is marginally slower yet slightly better on gas.

Or we could take it further:

A: A car that gets 60 mpg but has a 0-60 of 16 seconds.
B: A car that gets 30 mpg but has a 0-60 or 8 seconds.

I bet a good portion of the American public would choose option B in a heartbeat.
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Old 07-28-2008, 07:38 PM
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Re: Europe receives the second generation Honda Jazz (Fit here)

Hi Tyler:

___The Automatic is already slower than the Stick so why screw the sticks FE up to begin with If Honda is going to make reference to diesel like FE out of either the 1.2 or the 1.4 w/ the DSG, then put a diesel in it and get Insight busting FE instead of this non-sense. Anyone purchasing a 1.2L ICE is not racing from stop light to stop light but Honda could probably punch that thing into the 50 mpg range combined range without to much effort other than either a taller and wider spaced 5-speed or a wider spaced 6-speed. When Honda doesn’t see that $10.00 per gallon is a non-starter for performance optimization, they will not get it here either

___Good Luck

___Wayne
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Old 07-28-2008, 07:38 PM
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Re: Europe receives the second generation Honda Jazz (Fit here)

I wish they'd just give a 6 speed non-auto. I know the general public is lazy, but comon! At least give us the option.
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Old 07-28-2008, 08:12 PM
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Re: Europe receives the second generation Honda Jazz (Fit here)

Yea.. I'd love a 6-spd manual in mine.
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Old 07-28-2008, 08:52 PM
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Re: Europe receives the second generation Honda Jazz (Fit here)

Hi C0da and Mike:

___I have a feeling Honda will be rushing out a 6-speed manual for both the Fit and the Civic once the Toyota 6-speed manual comes out for their lineup later this year. I am hoping that Toyota does not play the stupid performance game with their 6-speed (I doubt they will) and I also hope they place it in the Yaris and not just the Camry or Corolla?

___Either way, when the 09 Fit first arrives here, it will be equipped with the same old hopped up 1.5 and a buzz bomb of a manual transmission when ordered with the stick I just do not know why we have to shame companies into doing the right thing? After all, the Current 2.2L Chevrolet Cobalt XFE (with a stick of course) has a 3 mpg advantage on the highway than the low weight and buzz bomb Fit per the 08 EPA

___Good Luck

___Wayne
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Old 07-28-2008, 09:04 PM
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Re: Europe receives the second generation Honda Jazz (Fit here)

Wayne makes a good point about FE. Also, previous years Civic CRX's came in an FE edition that got better mpg, but I don't recall how much better.

My 78 Civic 5 sp had plenty of power; 1.5 L and 3 bbl carb. I even towed a small flatbed trailer with 2 ATC's, tool boxes, and gas cans on it many times.

And is it possible to buy an underpowered car in America? Not.

Maybe Honda could offer a special FE edition of the Jazz here.

Noteworthy: there was a woman who came into a Tresler-Comet station in Cincy where I worked about 1970 to get gas in a Renault R-10, maybe R-8. She claimed to get 40 mpg day or night, rain or shine. Now we have CPU's, FI's, and VVT but I don't see where the progress that has been made in mpg's is proportional to the technology that we have. This could be, my own opinion here, that most, if not all, cars are overpowered for the everyday driving that we do.

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Old 07-29-2008, 01:42 AM
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Re: Europe receives the second generation Honda Jazz (Fit here)

I took a little trip out of town a few days ago, went north up I35. Wow, those on-ramps in those small towns are tiny. Probably the only place a 6 to 8 second 0-60 comes in handy. Taking 16seconds to get up to 60 would probably be scary there.

Anyways, after seeing the honda prius pictures, it looks like Honda and Toyota will be having an "efficiency" war with those two cars. Instead of everyone else always having horsepower wars.
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Old 07-29-2008, 07:47 AM
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Re: Europe receives the second generation Honda Jazz (Fit here)

I'm not disappointed. The new Fit is GoGo!
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Old 07-29-2008, 08:21 AM
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Re: Europe receives the second generation Honda Jazz (Fit here)

Although I too wish for greater FE out of the new Fit I think it will be a great seller for Honda. Further, it will be a great introduction for all those getting out of their oversized SUVs looking for something that has decent interior room, a hatch for storage capacity, and good fuel economy.

I'm looking forward to a test drive.
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