Still Waiting for Hybrids

[donee]

Hi All,

If you read the link to the break even comparisons they specifically say they did not consider maintanence differences. Gawd! That is like comparing a Porshe 911 to a Chrysler 300 C, and not comparing road holding. Suspiscious as I am of the media, I gotta think they did that on purpose, due the dramatic benefits the HSD system gives to brake life and its elimination of the 2 of the big three or car repair - alternators and starters.

[donee]

Hi Smile-n-nod,

Electricity is dramatically cheaper than gasoline. Something like 1/6 the cost per mile (less now that gas has gone up ? ). This is because burning gasoline in a typical car engine in a typical commute duty cycle is only 20% efficient. And then you go a throw away allot of the energy that does come out of the engine shaft, with fiction brakes.

Electric generator prime movers (gas turbines, steam turbines) run at peak engine efficiency all the time. And being so big, they can be made more efficient tha the car engine. Most electric power plants approach 50 % efficiency, and some are better. Or about 3 times as efficient as the standard car. At this time the fuels used in electric power plant are cheaper (coal, natural gas).

Electic cars can recover braking energy back into the battery. So the main losses are the heating the air and the tires. Li-Ion batteries put out around 90% of the energy put in them.

The Tesla electric sports car is quoted at being a 125 mpg ge (gasoline equivalent) vehicle. Compared with other similar sized performance vehicles that get in the 20's. Although many of these vehicles are still not as quick as the Tesla.

[Jimmy]

Actually there is no comparison at all, as numerous articles and documents have shown (do a Google search and you will get plenty of hits).

But to just mention the bottom line, the price of electricity is way, way less than the price of gasoline - and the pollution created by internal combustion engines overwhelms the small amount of pollution attributed to battery production. There is no pollution from a vehicle while running in electric-only mode. The only direct pollution is the use of the electric company's facility to charge the EV batteries, and this amount of pollution, as compared to the tons and tons of carbon dioxide spewing from millions of ICE vehicles, is minuscile. The use of solar power to charge the batteries will reduce the pollution to almost nothing.

I own a 2007 Zenn EV. During the first month of ownership I drove this vehicle 360 miles. The cost for charging the battery pack over those 30 days was $3.00, as shown by a Kill-O-Watt meter installed at the household 110 volt outlet where I plug in the vehicle extension cord.

[run500mph]

I know it sounds like a no brainer at a quick look, but I think that yes electricity is part of the cost (not a whole lot at first thought) as well as the extra $15,000.00 plus taxes, dealer charges, destination fees, loan interest, (22,000 Prius price tag), higher insurance compared to the old car and higher maintenance costs possibly, that I will have to make up in gas over how many years? That is my honest question, you see.

My car is basically free getting around 50mpg(I've improved since my last tank posted), with easily 4-5 years left in it (80K so far runs perfectly -I only drive like 7-9K/year which is another factor in recovering initial money hit- How much do you really have to drive to save the gas?)


I guess I gotta whip out the nerd-culator and just run some math. But for now it seems if I wait until I squeeze out the low cost useful life outa this current car then catch the new likely better technology with often lower prices in the future and let some other guy take the whole money hit wanting it from the dealer new, then I step in and get the thing with let's say 25-30K miles with a little depreciation (yes please).

If money was no object, I would say to hell with it let's just go get one, but money is Always an object, even if you're Mr. Buffett. I would also not lose the value of the 15+thousands$ having the currency now with more value than a depreciated $15K I would painfully and slowly recover by spending less on gas over years (even if it's only 3). Even 15Kmile drivers per year have a long road of years of driving to go to recover ALL the money that is initially lost(depending of course on the vehicle they got rid of and it''s mpg/costs).

Chime in I really am interested in the actual numbers of how this REALLY works. Awesome thread!

I know the obvious primary thoughts of save gas= no brainer, but I think theres more to it than the gas = no brainer in this scenario. I am often wrong, so help this thought out.
Take care all.

[run500mph]

Wow, the PHEV system is $11000.00 with tax and destination charges. Lets say it drops even 40% in a few years that is still $6800.00 on top of the cost of the car. That would take a lot of driving around over how long to recover the investment vs. a total outlay of say 7000.00 for an efficient lightly used hypermiled 1 to 1.5Liter non-hybrid or waiting a few years and getting a used hybrid or all-electric car in the future.

What do you minds think?

[Earthling]

Originally Posted by run500mph

My car is basically free getting around 50mpg(I've improved since my last tank posted), with easily 4-5 years left in it (80K so far runs perfectly -I only drive like 7-9K/year which is another factor in recovering initial money hit- How much do you really have to drive to save the gas?)

You probably are better off just keeping the car you have. Now, the guy with a Silverado, that's a whole different story.

Harry

[donee]

Hi run...,

I agree with Earthling. The thing for you to do is run your present car into the ground, then look for an electric car. By 2012 there should be some available in Florida. And Florida being warmer, makes it good for the EV operation.

The consumables maintanence on a Prius, the things that wear out, is less. Because braking is electric down to 7 mph as long as you stay out of the mountains, and the alternator and starter functions are done by a motor which is allot larger than it needs to be for these functions. So it lasts the life of the car.

[phoebeisis]

The math to breakeven

Miles to breakeven/mpg hybrid + cost difference/cost per gallon = miles to breakeven/mpg non hybrid

Charlie

[.iceman]

Originally Posted by Earthling

The hypermilers around here know we can usually top the EPA numbers, sometimes by a wide margin.
Harry

But that goes for the non-hybrid as well!