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Everybody’s Business

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Old 05-25-2008, 09:32 PM
donee donee is offline
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Re: Everybody’s Business

Hi Lamebums,

We have a socalled "gas guzzler" license fee here in Illinois. Because heavier vehicles cause more road damage, primarily. That fee could be boosted easily.

I think the automotive property tax is more of the slipery slope. They have that in Connecticut, and its level varies from community to community. I travel there on occaision, and people buy cars that depretiate fast just to lessen the burden. So the Yugo is the ideal car there, if it can be kept running. Or surplus police cruisers. Or ten year old pickup trucks. Technology cost money to develop, yet the regressive tax in Connecticut diminishes what can be charged for a vehicle. This is kinda an AMT situation. I imagine it was originally meant to ding the rich but now you cannot buy a car which you will pay more in property tax for it each year, than the gas it uses. Or it was that way till this year.
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Old 05-25-2008, 09:35 PM
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Earthling Earthling is offline
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Re: Everybody’s Business

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Originally Posted by lamebums View Post
Unfortunately you can't sign into law specific limitations on vehicle size, targeting larger SUV's and pickups.
Sure we can; in fact, we just did. The new CAFE standards law is too weak with too many loopholes, but it will in fact dictate what vehicles you can drive in the future.

Peak Oil will dictate terms, anyway. Don't be too surprised to see gasoline rationing. That law took effect during WW II. Be fun to see how the gas-hog drivers deal with something like that.

Ben Stein is a smart guy, but I agree that while he mentioned that we drive SUV gas-hogs, he didn't emphasize the importance of changing over our fleet of vehicles to fuel-efficient ones a quickly as possible. Hopefully, high gasoline prices will do that more efficiently than the government can, especially a government that is corrupt and guilty of being bought by lobbyists.

Harry
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Old 05-25-2008, 09:39 PM
IPlayTrumpets IPlayTrumpets is offline
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Re: Everybody’s Business

And, I think that conservation would be a higher priority for everyone concerned when its OUR oil we're burning, and not somebody else's.....
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Old 05-25-2008, 09:41 PM
IPlayTrumpets IPlayTrumpets is offline
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Re: Everybody’s Business

I can't say I'm a fan of more government regulations to try and solve the problem........
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Old 05-25-2008, 09:42 PM
lamebums lamebums is offline
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Re: Everybody’s Business

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Originally Posted by Earthling View Post
Sure we can; in fact, we just did. The new CAFE standards law is too weak with too many loopholes, but it will in fact dictate what vehicles you can drive in the future.
I'm not 100% in the know about the new CAFE, but can't they get around those CAFE requirements if it's a flex-fuel E85 vehicle?
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Old 05-25-2008, 09:53 PM
fitmpg fitmpg is offline
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Re: Everybody’s Business

Yes, and Americans don't like to hear (or acknowledge) that we're mostly a bunch of mega-consumers-and that there's little reason for it. Why, I just heard either Hannity or Limbaugh taking it to Barack Obama for a comment he made several days ago stating as much (albeit in a very cautious way.) There's a reason we're called "Ugly Americans" in Europe, as well as some other countries in the world. Instant gratification is the mantra of the day, I'm afraid. There is very little real "drama" in our day to day lives as Americans; thus the proliferation of the "reality-based" television shows which scar the television landscape and popular culture at large. I think I'll quote some John Prine now: "Blow up your T.V., throw away your paper, move to the country-build you a home. Plant a little garden, eat a lot of peaches, try to find Jesus on your own!" I feel much better now.
brian
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Old 05-25-2008, 10:28 PM
chief302 chief302 is offline
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Re: Everybody’s Business

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Originally Posted by IPlayTrumpets View Post
I gotta agree with Ben - we need to explore OUR sources of energy and reduce our dependency on Foreign Oil. I think energy independence is a bit more pressing than environmental concerns. If our economy is destroyed and we descend into chaos, nobody is going to care about the environment.......fix the dependency first, THEN worry about the environment. If we can take care of both at the same time, then that's great.
Many great past civilizations have collapsed in large part to environmental degradation and climate change (man made and/or natural). Check out Collapse by Jared Diamond. I agree that we need to shore up our economy and continue to look out for "numero uno", but if we totally disregard the environment, we may do so at our own peril.
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Old 05-25-2008, 10:38 PM
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Re: Everybody’s Business

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Originally Posted by lamebums View Post
I'm not 100% in the know about the new CAFE, but can't they get around those CAFE requirements if it's a flex-fuel E85 vehicle?
Yes, if I understand it correctly, that is one of the biggest loopholes, courtesy of GM and Archer Daniels Midland. Ain't it a wonderful country we live in? It's the best government money can buy...

All the shaningans our government and auto makers engage in can't get around the awful prospect of Peak Oil. Our fleet of vehicles must change. Gasoline prices will see to that. And if our auto makers won't supply the fuel efficient vehicles we need, then the Asian and European auto makers will. That's how the free market works. Hopefully, we'll still be able to afford these new vehicles...

Harry
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Old 05-25-2008, 10:54 PM
warthog1984 warthog1984 is offline
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Re: Everybody’s Business

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Originally Posted by fitmpg View Post
There's a reason we're called "Ugly Americans" in Europe, as well as some other countries in the world.
I Wish we were Ugly Americans. Unfortunately, far too many of us are so insular and self-assured of our own righteousness that'd it never happen.

And please, could everyone stop quoting books they've never read or understood? In the book, the Ugly American is the GOOD GUY!
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Old 05-25-2008, 10:54 PM
lamebums lamebums is offline
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Re: Everybody’s Business

Quote:
Originally Posted by Earthling View Post
Yes, if I understand it correctly, that is one of the biggest loopholes, courtesy of GM and Archer Daniels Midland. Ain't it a wonderful country we live in? It's the best government money can buy...

All the shaningans our government and auto makers engage in can't get around the awful prospect of Peak Oil. Our fleet of vehicles must change. Gasoline prices will see to that. And if our auto makers won't supply the fuel efficient vehicles we need, then the Asian and European auto makers will. That's how the free market works. Hopefully, we'll still be able to afford these new vehicles...

Harry
Therefore the new CAFE does not really change the type of vehicles we will drive, since all the Big 3 have to do is make their FSP's flex-fuel compatible and then keep pumping them out??

But yeah I agree that gas prices will change the market in ways that no amount of government regulation will ever achieve.

As to Asian and European automakers supplying the more fuel-efficient vehicles, didn't that happen in 1973? In response, we drove around Honda Civics and Toyota Corollas, and imported Volkswagen diesels from Europe because of their better mileage?

Of course, those same Japanese automakers have succumbed to the lure of FSP sales and the wider profit margins--so who perhaps would take the place?

Mark my words--we'll see cheap imports (most likely China--google Chery Automobile) that are little ****boxes but they're good on gas and relatively easy to maintain despite being really, really unsafe. But it won't cost a fortune to fill it up and as a result they'll sell like mad.
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