Return of Station Wagons?

[mdensch@charter.net]

Originally Posted by Taliesin

Are they trying to call this a wagon version of the Camry?

www.fueleconomy.gov calls it a SUV.

Yeah, it's not just the American companies doing this to us.

I think Toyota refers to it as a "cross-over", which is the new term for SUV now that SUV is a dirty word. It is based on the Camry platform.

[Taliesin]

Originally Posted by mdensch@charter.net

I think Toyota refers to it as a "cross-over", which is the new term for SUV now that SUV is a dirty word. It is based on the Camry platform.

I guess since FE requirements don't have a crossover class, they just lump them into the SUVs.

Either way, it artificially raises the fleet SUV average and fails to bring down the car average. This way they can still sell those monstrous FSPs and say "our average is ###".

Frankly, if the EPA is going to call it a SUV, so will I.

[fuzzy]

... And finally, Subaru gets both a YAY and NAY from me (and I say all this as a 3-time Subaru owner)
- Yay for still offering MTs in all their wagons. Unlike almost everyone else.
- Yay for developing a fuel efficient diesel.
- Nay for not bringing the diesel to the USA.
- Nay for sticking to their AWD-only mantra. Subaru didn't drop their 2WD models until 1996 (not that long ago to someone like me) and the AWD system still imposes a 2-3mpg penalty. That might be OK if it were on the diesel model with FE comparable to the VW TDIs, but is NOT ok when paired with their fuel-sucking 2.5L gas engines. FE is the primary reason Subaru lost me as a customer.

Agree on the Subaru, except that I still like AWD. Now I'd prefer part time 4WD if it reduced drag. I'm still on my first, and was attracted to it partly because it was NOT an SUV, as SUVs were still exempt from many safety standards at that time. It was a disappointment when Outbacks became SUVs about 2004. To avoid CAFE, they took the car most prone to rollover and jacked it up another inch.

My attraction to the new 2009 Forester ended the instant I learned its FE was up a measly 1 mpg from my old wagon. (And its back is too short for my skis.) I can hang on to it several more years waiting for the diesels to arrive. If not, bye-bye Subaru.

[MT bucket]

There are lots of used escort wagons around, they are cheap reliable cars and if you get one with a manual tranny i bet they are good for 40-50 mpg when hypermiled

[bomber991]

Originally Posted by WriConsult

Recent Nays:[list][*]Toyota Venza. As the wagon version of the Camry, this one is BIG. Given the amount of cargo space 22mpg is actually pretty respectable. But I still have to call it out as a NAY because of drivetrain inflation: only the 3.5L engine is offered. Based on the ratings of the various Camry variants, if the 2.4L engine were offered we'd be looking at EPA numbers of 24 or 25mpg. And from a hypermiler's perspective I'm disappointed at the lack of an MT offering, although in this segment it's hardly a surprise. Also, the Camry is offered as a hybrid -- when do we get a Venza hybrid?!

Hmm, visiting the Toyota Venza site, they do offer a 2.7L 4cylinder engine too. I guess it's just not on fueleconomy.gov yet? It's supposed to get 21/29 according to the Toyota site, so that's actually not too bad for something that's an "SUV".

http://www.toyota.com/venza/specs.html

[aca2983]

Originally Posted by MT bucket

There are lots of used escort wagons around, they are cheap reliable cars and if you get one with a manual tranny i bet they are good for 40-50 mpg when hypermiled

Finding one with a manual trans is tough. Been there done that. The majority are automatics, particularly the later years which were heavily sold as fleet vehicles.

(Virtually all maid services in my area used them for a time, and one that is nearby still has a fleet of at least 10 of them, which testifies to their durability since most are pushing 10 years old now.)