Enginer plug in hybrid kits coming to the market

[Dan]

Wow... CMPG has "slashdotted" Examiner.com ;-)

here's a google cache copy while the site is down.

http://google.com/search?q=cache:htt...-to-the-market

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[Dan]

From their FAQ at: http://www.enginer.us/faq/ in regards to the Insight.

14. How is this kit comparing to calcars' design?

This is an improved and simplified method upon calcars' in the way it is connected and releasing energy. The PHEV battery pack doesn't connect to stock pack directly. It uses customized isolated DC/DC converter to control the release of energy to the inverter and stock battery. It is charging and assisting stock battery during driving (only when engine ready on). It doesn't have impressive 100 MPG performance as calcars' in short range. But over 20 miles (2KW) and 40 miles (4KW), it is equivalent to calcars'. The controlled release of energy (constant output current ~10A and set max voltage range 320V for Prius-I, 240V for Prius-II) results in lower power requirements for all components and longer battery life. This design reduces cost dramatically. We also eliminate the needs for CAN View and other control circuit boards so that the same design can be easily ported to other hybrid vehicle like Ford Escape, Fusion or Honda Insight.

It mentions that the simplified design allows it to work with other vehicles, not that it does per se.

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[Right Lane Cruiser]

Originally Posted by TheForce

If you have a really high SOC will it start assisting to burn off the extra charge?

What this pack is doing is charging the stock battery so the Prius has a SOC of 70%-80%. When the SOC gets that high the Prius starts to use more of the battery to get its self down to its happy SOC of 60%.

Jay, I've seen a very limited version of this with my old pack but not with the replacement. The Honda hybrids don't manage SoC nearly as aggressively as Toyota and Ford offerings do -- you typically only get assist if you've already run the engine down to a less efficient state and still need more torque.

[TheForce]

Cant you use MIMA to get more assist at highway speeds? If so MIMA and the extra battery pack should get you well above 100MPG pretty easy as long as you don't draw down the stock pack.

[krousdb]

Originally Posted by Dan

Holy Cow! A 2K PHEV kit. That is insane. Need to find some certified installers . Not fired up about clamping that high volt lead!

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Installation is fairly easy, it only involves 5 wires. The high volt leads cannot be accessed until you pull the service plug. Once you pull the plug, the high volts go away. The batteries are 48V max, which is safe. If you feel like driving to Raleigh, I will help you with the install, no charge.

[Right Lane Cruiser]

Hi, Jay -- it is true that you'd be able to combine MIMA with a booster pack to do what you like manually. It won't be much use to most people though because they don't have that system.

Last I checked MIMA was a $1000.00 add on with very involved installation tasks requiring substantial disassembly of the vehicle. For users who already have the system hooking up the battery would probably be pretty straight forward.

I wonder if both the regen and assist gauges would light when using it??

[Dan]

Originally Posted by krousdb

Installation is fairly easy, it only involves 5 wires. The high volt leads cannot be accessed until you pull the service plug. Once you pull the plug, the high volts go away. The batteries are 48V max, which is safe. If you feel like driving to Raleigh, I will help you with the install, no charge.

Dude! that's a deal! I've just vowed not to get this till we get some debt off the plate and change jobs. But I like to Lego-like mentality of this kit.

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[krousdb]

Originally Posted by Dan

But I like to Lego-like mentality of this kit.

You have nailed it! I have been saying that the approach of this solution is eloquent. Now I can use your Lego-like reference. People will understand that.

[Dan]

OK... so I've dug through PC and CMPG and come up with the software guy's question deck. Feel free to answer as many or few questions as you wish...

1. I looked at the manual and they install a little switch. What does it do? Looked like it was an EV switch, but the other docs imply that it somehow turns the curcuit for the AUX pack on or off. Does it do either of these, or both of these? Can you turn the AUX pack off or is it always feeding into the OEM pack?
2. I'm a bit concerned about the thermals on the OEM pack with the AUX pack installed. This summer I had my trunk tray full of miscellaneous junk. I noticed on a number of occasions my pack would go all thermal on me and kick on the little fan in the back seat. Easy to hear in a glide. So what I figured out was that the junk in my trunk tray was acting as a heat sink. Since my car in Texas in the sun will hit an internal temperature of 130+ on most days, anything other than air sitting over my spare will thermally transfer as heat down into the OEM pack. My solution was to remove my trunk tray and tray cover for a few days. Worked great. So now the thought of putting another heat sink back in that cavity fills me with a bit of concern, not so much for the AUX pack, but rather for the OEM pack. Having a steal box heated to 130F will surely be enough to through the OEM pack into it's thermal spiral. When it goes all thermal, there is very little EV and other goodness since that is only allowed when the OEM pack is "healthy". So A bit of concern from the Texans here I guess.
3. Next question is on regen. If the AUX pack holds the OEM pack at 80% SOC, what happens when I hit my 1 mile regen off the freeway. Will the OEM pack eventually hit MAX_SOC and start ditching regen? What does the OEM pack do when a regen is directed to an overcharged pack?
4. On to the DC/DC inverter. Does it regulate the bleed off of the AUX pack or is it simply always dumping 10A down towards the OEM pack? Will it stop if it senses the OEM pack is topped off, or will it overfill the glass?
5. On to balancing. I understand that the balancers are like bleed off pressure valves. If the SOC of one of the bundles of cells is too high it will just bleed that charge off. So... Why? Why do you need your cells to have like SOC? And what kind of efficiency hit does this constant 0.3 AMP bleed per balancer really mean to the efficiency. If my math is right, on a 4 KWh pack, your bleeding 1.2 AMP (.3*4) or 30Wh in balancing. OK so maybe 0.75% being spent in balancing is OK, but what if my math is wrong. Is it more?
6. Next question is on I/O. What type of control surface do you have on the Inverter and balancers (or other components). Can the software guy hook up a serial or USB cable to these components to get real time data. Does it already have software with APIs to roll your own AUX pack status monitor? How do you know what the SOC of your AUX pack is while your in the pilot's seat?
7. Another question about the Inverters/Balancers. From what I read on the spec of the 3.2V cell, the manufacturer recommends DoD (depth of discharge) of no greater than 66%. Is that configurable in the Inverter to cut off at a SOC of 33% or below? Can the same be done for the charger. Can you set it to stop drawing AC power from the wall once the pack hits 80% SoC?
8. Another SOC question. If I set the SoC and DoD to keep the SOC between 80% and 33% on the AUX pack, my math yields a operation range of 1.925 KWh using the 3.2V quote per cell. Using the 48V nominal figure and including the 30Wh balancing load that comes down to 1.774 KWh. Is that operation range too conservative, or is the Enginer documentation too aggressive?
9. Final question. Will this mess up my super clean OEM EV button install. I don't like thier silly little switch. I think Jay can do WAAAYYY better!
10. OK... last last question. Does anyone know of a city with a participially health PHEV conversion credit. I thought I heard Marc say that Austin was looking at a 7k credit, but surely that fell through. Any other known state, or city PHEV conversion credits, since 10% IRS credit is tantamount to 0%. I'm grateful I'm not broke, but being not broke, makes most IRS credits I apply for unattainable. State and municipal credits on the other hand have never been a problem.

As a final thought, I don't share most of the concerns I've seen elsewhere (not here) about what the potential benefit will be. It's just like the question about the EV button. In the right hands on the right commute the EV button alone can boost MPG by 10-20%, and in the wrong hands it can REDUCE mpg by 5-10%. Same goes here. If you can tailor your drive to use the AUX pack correctly I think you can easily get a 70%-80% boost on MPG (not MPGe) given the correct commute, but in the wrong hands and wrong route the difference may indeed be negligible.

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[hobbit]

Anyone considering the Enginer kit definitely must must must go
read the ENTIRETY of the long-running Priuschat thread on the
subject, to see the litany of problems people are having getting
this thing going [not the least of which is Jack getting banned
from PC for a while because of some cultural preconceptions on
what sort of interaction with forum members is permissible.
.
To their credit, the group over there, whether they're shills or
not, is sticking it out and working through the problems and
Jack seems fairly responsive in trying to get everyone's systems
working correctly. But please, before anyone jumps at this
thing get the big picture on what's going on with it first.
You might want to wait a bit until things are a little better
debugged and reliable, unless you want to join the beta party.
.
As I mentioned before, it *is* nice that someone's figured out
how much current you can inject into the car such that it *knows*
about it, and not cause errors. This is way better than trying
to end-run around the battery management and then lie to the car
about what's going on.
.
_H*