New S1 Veto Prius II technique

[Dan]

REVISED: The original flawed procedure is quoted in post #5

OK, I'm modifying the procedure to make it as reproduceable as possible.

1. Get in your Prius II.
2. Depress brake and power on Prius
3. Don't put it in gear, just wait 7 seconds for the engine to turn on.
4. Wait 3 seconds, if the engine does not power off, turn off your prius, wait 3 seconds and return to step 2.
5. If your Prius did shut off, your in S2 (I think).

Now I don't know if this will work if the block temp is below 40°C, but I've seen this behavior with block temps between 50-60°C.

The first couple of times I tried it, the engine immediately (1-2 sec) shut off after it lit. It never hapend on power up #1 or #2. If seen it using the above procedure on power up #3 and in some cases not until power up #4. Even with 3 seconds of ICE each power cycle and 4 power cycles to get there, it may still burn less gas than a normal S1 burn-in. For now, I'm not saying this will save gas, but getting around S1 is always cool.

I was able to do it twice. Can anyone confirm?

Poll of "confirmed" "not confirmed should follow this post on this thread in 2 minutes.

Oh Specs:
2007 Prius II.
Factory EV mod installed.
Canadian EBH installed.
SG II (no xgauge) installed.
CanView not installd.

11011011

[xcel]

Hi Dan:

___Remember the DSG technique? I saw the no-assist w/ the ICE taking on power after the second or third but I was not watching SG-II IG numbers or worrying about an S1 bypass at the time so I could not say if an S1 bypass was the case or not?

___Instead of coming to a complete stop, I would punch her out at lets say 15 - 20 mph with the first initial accel off the pack. After maybe 10 seconds of ICE-Run, I would power her off and back on again shutting down the ICE but taking the free DSG coast down (the ultimate Prius FAS) to a stop. From a stop, place her in P, Power off and back on again. Repeat. I could bring her up to 157 degrees F in the 60 – 80 mpg range from dead cold on almost deserted exit and local town roads leaving my old job far south of Chicago in the morning w/ cooler summer temps.

___The technique I described needs a lot explanation and extreme caution however. You are truly dead stick even though she boots back up. In other words, you are not going anywhere until you have stopped, cycled the Power button in P and started over thus DSG or Dead Stick Glide. I am also not sure how good it was for the Prius either but slowly spinning MGSets at 20 mph or less is not a real concern in my book I am not recommending this but just pointing out that it may follow along similar lines to what you have seen?

___Good Luck

___Wayne

[TheForce]

I tried on my way home from work and well Dan, I think your nuts! I did not vote because I want to give it another try tomorrow on my way to work.

My test was ran from a 8 hour cold engine in ~39 degree temp. Turn on car, moved around the lot in EV until the engine came on. Verified the negative value of IGN and came to a stop. Turned off car, waited about 5 sec and turn it back on. drove around in EV until engine came on and still negative IGN values.

I do know that with a warm engine that you can leave S1 early from the start. I seen it all the time when my EBH was working. I really need to get that thing fixed.

[diamondlarry]

I will try this in the morning. I don't think I'll have an opportunity to try it when the EBH wasn't plugged in until Sunday.

[Dan]

OK, I'm modifying the procedure to make it as reproduceable as possible.

1. Get in your Prius II.
2. Depress brake and power on Prius
3. Don't put it in gear, just wait 7 seconds for the engine to turn on.
4. Wait 3 seconds, if the engine does not power off, turn off your prius, wait 3 seconds and return to step 2.
5. If your Prius did shut off, your in S2 (I think).

Now I don't know if this will work if the block temp is below 40°C, but I've seen this behavior with block temps between 50-60°C.

The first couple of times I tried it, the engine immediately (1-2 sec) shut off after it lit. It never hapend on power up #1 or #2. If seen it using the above procedure on power up #3 and in some cases not until power up #4. Even with 3 seconds of ICE each power cycle and 4 power cycles to get there, it may still burn less gas than a normal S1 burn-in. For now, I'm not saying this will save gas, but getting around S1 is always cool.

Original Post that I'm now agreeing doesn't work. Please use the above procedure to test.

Originally Posted by Dan

I may be crazy, but I think I may have found a way to bypass S1. It happened on accident when I was dropping my son off at school.

1. Dial your SG into IGN
2. Turn on you Prius and tool around REAL slow till the engine lights
3. Note the negative value reported for IGN (your in S1)
4. Come to a COMPLETE stop
5. Turn the car off
6. Turn the car on and tool around in EV till the engine lights agian.
7. Notice the "Normal" IGN numbers and note that the engine takes full loads without MG assit (NOT S1).

I was able to do it twice. Can anyone confirm?

Poll of "confirmed" "not confirmed should follow this post on this thread in 2 minutes.

Oh Specs:
2007 Prius II.
Factory EV mod installed.
Canadian EBH installed.
SG II (no xgauge) installed.
CanView not installd.

11011011

[Dan]

Originally Posted by xcel

Hi Dan:

___Remember the DSG technique? I saw the no-assist w/ the ICE taking on power after the second or third but I was not watching SG-II IG numbers or worrying about an S1 bypass at the time so I could not say if an S1 bypass was the case or not?

___Instead of coming to a complete stop, I would punch her out at lets say 15 - 20 mph with the first initial accel off the pack. After maybe 10 seconds of ICE-Run, I would power her off and back on again shutting down the ICE but taking the free DSG coast down (the ultimate Prius FAS) to a stop. From a stop, place her in P, Power off and back on again. Repeat. I could bring her up to 157 degrees F in the 60 – 80 mpg range from dead cold on almost deserted exit and local town roads leaving my old job far south of Chicago in the morning w/ cooler summer temps.

___The technique I described needs a lot explanation and extreme caution however. You are truly dead stick even though she boots back up. In other words, you are not going anywhere until you have stopped, cycled the Power button in P and started over thus DSG or Dead Stick Glide. I am also not sure how good it was for the Prius either but slowly spinning MGSets at 20 mph or less is not a real concern in my book I am not recommending this but just pointing out that it may follow along similar lines to what you have seen?

___Good Luck

___Wayne

OK... I've always felt a little dim because I could never figure out what you were doing with a DSG. Were you doing this with a Classic Prius or Prius II? I had always thought that a Prius II throw you in Park if you ever managed to power off at a speed other than 0 MPH. Did you figure out how to get a Prius II to shut down at speed? If so... How exactly. Also, does it have a Power Button (SKS system).

11011011

[xcel]

Hi Dan:

___I used DSG in both. The Prius-I with the key and the Prius-II with the Power Button. Never ever place it in P while you were coasting down to 0 however. Go from D to N while you powered it down and bring her back up but do not touch anything afterwards. Only go to P when you were actually stopped. I tested the P position from about 0.25 mph just to see (less than a crawling speed as in barely moving) and the parking pawls grabbed almost immediately when going to P while booted up in a DSG.

___Good Luck

___Wayne

[Dan]

Originally Posted by Dan

OK, I'm modifying the procedure to make it as reproduceable as possible.

1. Get in your Prius II.
2. Depress brake and power on Prius
3. Don't put it in gear, just wait 7 seconds for the engine to turn on.
4. Wait 3 seconds, if the engine does not power off, turn off your prius, wait 3 seconds and return to step 2.
5. If your Prius did shut off, your in S2 (I think).

OK reconfirmed the above procedure after 6 power cycles the engine vetoed S1. After the 3 cycle I moved from a 3 second delay between steps to a 0.5 second delay between steps. Faster might be better. Also all the testing brought me from a low 4 bar SoC down into a 3 bar SoC. I went ahead and force-charged up to 5 bars so I can test it with a valid charge on the pack in the morning. SoC may make a difference.

Originally Posted by xcel

Hi Dan:

___I used DSG in both. The Prius-I with the key and the Prius-II with the Power Button. Never ever place it in P while you were coasting down to 0 however. Go from D to N while you powered it down and bring her back up but do not touch anything afterwards. Only go to P when you were actually stopped. I tested the P position from about 0.25 mph just to see (less than a crawling speed as in barely moving) and the parking pawls grabbed almost immediately when going to P while booted up in a DSG.

___Good Luck

___Wayne

OK... color me astonished. I didn't know you got this working with a Prius II. I accidently hit the power button at about 40 KPH (25 MPH) and nothing happened. No beep no power down, nothing. So from what I'm reading on your procedure you do the following (please correct if I'm off)

1. Power up your Prius II, put in drive and start driving
2. Acellerate with S1 up to about 15 MPH then shift to N.
3. While in N and executing a 15 mph NICE-on coast, hit the power button.
4. At this point the Prius II does NOT automatically place the car in park, but instead powers down with the car in N and executes a dead stick coast
5. When your done with your dead stick coast, come to a complete stop (Prius II still in N), depress brake and power back on.
6. This is now the second boot of the Prius and S1 is vetoed?

Is this right?

11011011

[Right Lane Cruiser]

Dan, I don't think Wayne was trying to "veto S1" exactly. He's adapted what you've seen here mentioned as "warm up P&G" with the caveat that you MUST come to a complete stop between pulses because to start back up you have to be in Park. This is more the P&G that is done in a non-hybrid with stickshift where the glide is an actual FAS than the powered up spin-over allowed by pedal manipulation in the Prius.

The idea is that if the engine has to run, use it in the most efficient manner possible. In the process you'll end up get the engine up to (more) normal operating temperatures while avoiding as much inefficient running as possible.

In other words, it isn't so much a veto as a shortening.

[xcel]

Hi Dan:

___Close.

1. Power up your Prius II with the button and immediately place in D on ready.
2. Pull away under EV.
3. When the ICE comes on a few seconds later, you have to let it run while it is doing nothing and you continue to accelerate off the pack to your target speed of 12 to 25 mph.
4. Shift to N and when you see it on the display (about the same time), push the Power Button.
5. After she shuts down, push the Power Button again to reboot (Do not touch the Shifter as D doesn’t do anything anyway but it is to stay away from P at all costs.)
6. Continue coasting down to 0 mph (true Prius FAS) while still booted up and still in N.
7. When you have completed the Dead Stick Glide and come to a complete stop (Prius II still in N), depress brake.
8. Place shifter in P.
9. Hit Power Button to shut down the Prius-II.
10. Hit Power Button to reboot and immediately place in D on ready and take off.

___Repeat. On the second or third cycle, your next accel will come off the ICE and not the pack as you have probably lost a bar or two from the previous accel up to 25 mph and the ICE is again filling the pack and driving the wheels.

___I have no idea if it removes S1 but I do know that after the second or third DSG cycle, the ICE will power the wheels and fill the pack vs. the insane draw off the pack to accelerate while the engine just sits there doing nothing. That non-sense goes away.

___If there is just one major design flaw wrt the Prius-I and II, it is this crazy warm-up cycle. I hate it, I hate it and I hate it some more

___Again, I am not recommending the DSG technique to anyone as I have only shown 2 people this technique live and do not have a Prius of my own to play with unfortunately

___Good Luck

___Wayne