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Dan's quest to for a SGII software teardown.

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Old 08-20-2007, 01:27 AM
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Dan Dan is offline
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Re: Dan's quest to for a SGII software teardown.

Got the exact same response at 7F. 7F0000 returned 7F7F11. According to the swiss summary of the OBD-II spec (part 3, page 10) here, mode $3F and $7F are not valid modes. So it looks like Toyota is not implementing any vehicle specific modes in the Prius.

11011011
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Best commute = 14.3mi @ 114 MPG (sg2)
Best (non-trivial) tank = 1101mi @ 91.2 MPG (fcd)
MPG Centurion-Hybridfest 2007-Prius II-26mi @ 106 MPG (sg2)
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Old 08-20-2007, 09:59 AM
hobbit hobbit is offline
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Re: Dan's quest to for a SGII software teardown.

At some point I was given to understand that the CAN IDs map
either to individual ECUs, or to a "broadcast" type of thing
that I believe is that 7DF id. There was some fairly defined
set of ECU types, something like 7E0 for engine, 7E1 for trans,
etc -- but I don't know if that's standard or how rigidly the
manufacturers have to adhere to it. And in the answers, the ID
winds up with another bit turned on so if the engine ECU is
queried at 7E0 the answer comes from 7E8 [don't quote me on that,
I'm just parroting some stuff I read somewhere]. And that's
just in the CAN layer -- these extra query/response differentiator
bits happen elsewhere too, such as in the OBD-II layer where
a query for PID 00 goes in as 00 and comes out as 40 with a
bit to indicate "this is a response".
.
The protocols involved in all of this have been a *nightmare*
in the industry since their inception, and there are some groups
vigorously trying to standardize this to the point where any
independent auto tech can use off-the-shelf tools to get all the
diag info they need, and also re-flash firmware into ECUs when
needed via something called J2534 "passthrough" protocol. See
the NASTF website for a glimpse of what they're up against. The
car manufacturers grudgingly allow for a minimum set of standard
data exchange [such as generic OBD-II to carry emissions info]
but over and above that they just arrogantly assume they can
do whatever they want and either not document it or make some
of it available at a very dear price. It really sucks.
.
_H*
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Old 08-20-2007, 10:48 AM
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Dan Dan is offline
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Re: Dan's quest to for a SGII software teardown.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hobbit View Post
At some point I was given to understand that the CAN IDs map
either to individual ECUs, or to a "broadcast" type of thing
that I believe is that 7DF id. There was some fairly defined
set of ECU types, something like 7E0 for engine, 7E1 for trans,
etc -- but I don't know if that's standard or how rigidly the
manufacturers have to adhere to it. And in the answers, the ID
winds up with another bit turned on so if the engine ECU is
queried at 7E0 the answer comes from 7E8 [don't quote me on that,
I'm just parroting some stuff I read somewhere]. And that's
just in the CAN layer -- these extra query/response differentiator
bits happen elsewhere too, such as in the OBD-II layer where
a query for PID 00 goes in as 00 and comes out as 40 with a
bit to indicate "this is a response".
.
The protocols involved in all of this have been a *nightmare*
in the industry since their inception, and there are some groups
vigorously trying to standardize this to the point where any
independent auto tech can use off-the-shelf tools to get all the
diag info they need, and also re-flash firmware into ECUs when
needed via something called J2534 "passthrough" protocol. See
the NASTF website for a glimpse of what they're up against. The
car manufacturers grudgingly allow for a minimum set of standard
data exchange [such as generic OBD-II to carry emissions info]
but over and above that they just arrogantly assume they can
do whatever they want and either not document it or make some
of it available at a very dear price. It really sucks.
.
_H*
Yep, I think I have the 11 bit can addresses I'm after (such as 7E8 and the like), but I have no way to stuff those into OBDII. I was hoping that Toyota implemented some sort of pass-thru PID, but that doesn't look to be the case. The only stuff out there is in the standard modes of 0x01 - 0x0F, nothing exotic. Only thing I can do now is to decode all the PIDs for $01, $06, $08, $09. Least I am only missing one spec instead of many.

May start looking for an CAN sniffer for my PC, too bad no one sells them yet. Heard the ELM adapters don't speak CAN yet, and most have resorted to wiring up their own. Any thoughts on where to get a CAN <-> PC adapter for < $400? Preferably one with the software to get the baudrates matched and stuff like that. I think CAN is speaking on a frequency that serial ports have a hard time matching.

The quest continues.

11011011
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Best commute = 14.3mi @ 114 MPG (sg2)
Best (non-trivial) tank = 1101mi @ 91.2 MPG (fcd)
MPG Centurion-Hybridfest 2007-Prius II-26mi @ 106 MPG (sg2)
Dan <11011011>
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Old 08-20-2007, 03:19 PM
hobbit hobbit is offline
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Re: Dan's quest to for a SGII software teardown.

The ELM 327 speaks CAN. And last I heard, Attila Vass was
using the CAN232 interface to passively pull data from the
DLC. The data rate will definitely overwhelm most RS232
interfaces even if cranked to 115.2 kbaud or better, but
setting some acceptance registers can help stem the tide.
Lawicel apparently also makes a USB interface, which might
be able to keep up and log the full datastream. But a lot
of what's flying around is realtime control stuff; answering
OBD-II queries is said to be any ECU's *last* priority which
is one reason it's generally still dog-slow even on a half-
meg canbus.
.
_H*
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Old 08-20-2007, 04:06 PM
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Re: Dan's quest to for a SGII software teardown.

Ahh.. Attilla's site is making a lot more sense now. So I could get the CANUSB, but I still need some USB LCD to display what I want while driving. I'm spoiled by the SGII and I don't want to have to look down at my laptop to get the correct data reading. All I need is an LCD one or two characters wide, but I've yet to see anything.

If I had a fancier cell phone I could display it on there (via bluetooth) but my old Sony T610 doesn't have a bluetooth API that mortals are allowed to play with.

11011011
__________________

Best commute = 14.3mi @ 114 MPG (sg2)
Best (non-trivial) tank = 1101mi @ 91.2 MPG (fcd)
MPG Centurion-Hybridfest 2007-Prius II-26mi @ 106 MPG (sg2)
Dan <11011011>
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Old 08-20-2007, 10:26 PM
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Re: Dan's quest to for a SGII software teardown.

Hi Dan:

___I spoke with Ron today about an advanced use of the next gen - data logging SG-II. While speaking to him about that issue, I mentioned your name more then a few times wrt this thread. I suspect that you may want to give him a call so as to beta test the data logging setup.

___Good Luck

___Wayne
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Old 08-20-2007, 11:43 PM
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Re: Dan's quest to for a SGII software teardown.

I'm on it

11011011
__________________

Best commute = 14.3mi @ 114 MPG (sg2)
Best (non-trivial) tank = 1101mi @ 91.2 MPG (fcd)
MPG Centurion-Hybridfest 2007-Prius II-26mi @ 106 MPG (sg2)
Dan <11011011>
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