One Group’s Strategy to Derail Oil Pipelines, Raise Energy Prices

[NeilBlanchard]

The only thing that can make anyone energy independent -- is renewable energy.

Oil is finite.

Coal is finite.

Gas is finite.

Uranium is finite.

Renewable energy will last as long as the earth and the sun -- about anther 5 Billion years or so.

[herm]

Oil and coal was made from CO2, water and sunlight.. and it is renewable if you open up your time scale a bit. We can make oil from plants today, duplicating the process.. and we have been making charcoal for a long time... obviously it wont be as cheap a free fuel spewing out of the ground like magic, we might have to be more careful spending it.

[Carcus]

Isn't this Keystone thing yesterday's news?

Thought I read there's already a work-around well underway utilizing existing permits to expand a (longer) pathway through Illinois and then down to Houston/Port Arthur through Cushing.

__________________________

"Most of the changes are expected to be finished in 2014. Once completed, they would push an additional 310,000 barrels a day through Michigan toward Ontario and take 850,000 barrels a day to the Gulf Coast."

Keystone XL rival Enbridge avoids scrutiny of oil pipeline plans
http://articles.latimes.com/2012/aug...eline-20120818

Graphic:
http://www.latimes.com/business/la-n...445603.graphic


/ if that doesn't work, Warren Buffet's got some trains they could use, and if that doesn't work they'll just pipe it all to the west coast. This stuff's going to market one way or another, but it won't affect U.S. gasoline prices much any way it goes. Oil is a world market, and the bottleneck that caused the WTI/Brent split on oil price is mostly "resolved" now.
// Conversely, US natural gas price has a long way to go to get "un-bottlenecked". I would expect natural gas to stay relatively low for many years to come.... so I'm eye-balling CNG conversions for my ride.

[Carcus]

Originally Posted by herm

Oil and coal was made from CO2, water and sunlight.. and it is renewable if you open up your time scale a bit. We can make oil from plants today, duplicating the process.. and we have been making charcoal for a long time... obviously it wont be as cheap a free fuel spewing out of the ground like magic, we might have to be more careful spending it.

.... OR, we could make something that has an EROEI high enough to actually be somewhat affordable ...... like biogas.

[Carcus]

Originally Posted by NeilBlanchard

The only thing that can make anyone energy independent -- is renewable energy.

Oil is finite.

Coal is finite.

Gas is finite.

Uranium is finite.

Renewable energy will last as long as the earth and the sun -- about anther 5 Billion years or so.

Score: 75%
(gas is renewable)

[herm]

methanol, methanol

[phoebeisis]

Carcus- ha,ha you got Neil- but only by splitting hairs.
Gas-renewable??
Ok-yes technically true.
But what part of methane is from renewable sources now?
Maybe 1/1000 1/10,000 heck maybe 1/100,000
A few landfills are being mined for methane-guessing the methane they mine was from paper products-trees-certainly renewable-

And Herm is right also- methanol ethanol are renewable

Carcus- kinda puzzled about the below
"Most of the changes are expected to be finished in 2014. Once completed, they would push an additional 310,000 barrels a day through Michigan toward Ontario and take 850,000 barrels a day to the Gulf Coast."

Why ship it to Ontario? Across the top of Mich?? Not sure just what that means?

Another question- why wouldn't conservative land owners sell an easement(sic) to allow that pipeline-Keystone-across their land?
They probably would make more $$ with the pipeline than with whatever farming/cattle whatever they currently do?
Is it a " stay off my land it is mine and I don't need the $$" issue to them? Short term wealth just not much interest to these midwesterners?
Just curious what their reasoning is- and likely the GOV would be to just screw them-eminent domain or whatever it is that allows GOV to take your land for levees bridges?
and to take it for BIG MONEY to make Bigger Money- if they can convince the GOV that it is in the Public interest

Sorry about spelling-spell check is down

Thanks
Charlie
Herm- 13% Vulture elevator (abbreviated version)

[herm]

My guess is that a pipeline to the west coast will eventually be built, after the Indian tribes have their say.. and then the tar will end up in China.

[phoebeisis]

Herm

Maybe you-or someone else-posted something indicating there already is a 350,000 BPD pipeline going west-and they plan to add another pipeline to increase to 1 million per day?

But those Mountains?? Just high high are those passes-the lowest passes?
Just HOW EXPENSIVE is it to pump that oil to 8000 feet or so?? Gaining at least 6000 feet??
Gotta be expensive??? Energy expensive??
I wonder how much energy it takes-?
How many foot lbs of energy is in 1 lb of crude? Takes at least 6000 to hoist it 6000 ft?
What is the energy content-in ft lbs-of a pound of oil?
Gotta pump LOTS of CO2 into the atm to hoist that oil that high(guessing the mts have pretty high passes)

[RedylC94]

Originally Posted by phoebeisis

Just HOW EXPENSIVE is it to pump that oil to 8000 feet or so?? Gaining at least 6000 feet??
Gotta be expensive??? Energy expensive??
I wonder how much energy it takes-?
How many foot lbs of energy is in 1 lb of crude? Takes at least 6000 to hoist it 6000 ft?

Yes, but can't you recover that energy on the way down? Or at least save having to spend as much energy pumping it down as it takes to pump the tar the same distance at constant altitude?

Can the stuff be pumped at all if it happens to get cold at high altitude in the winter in the Canadian Rockies?