The Great Ethanol Scam

[phoebeisis]

Basjoos,
Yes, I live/lived in cane country.There were cane fields completely surrounding the town I grew up in. They would burn the fields every year before harvesting.

I'll give those diatoms a try.The bacteria seem to be working a little, but I'm still cutting away shotgunned leaves everyday.

Thanks,
Charlie

[Taliesin]

Originally Posted by Jough96Accord

The only difference I could find between the two is the E85 uses a wideband O2 sensor, larger range of ignition timing and longer durations for injector pulses...

Other than the differences you mentioned a FFV also has a fuel delivery system (lines, injectors, etc.) that is designed to stand up to the higher acidity levels of E85. The higher acidity of ethanol is the biggest problem with using it as fuel in vehicles that aren't designed for it.

The reason that E100 won't work in the FFV is the change in flash point. A vehicle can be designed to use E100 (look at Brazil), but the US hasn't gone in that direction yet, partly due to cooler weather (and in winter E85 is actually E75 due to this).

Any vehicle can use E85, but it will run poorly and the higher acidity will cause something to fail. I have seen several people fueling up with it just because it is cheaper. One tank won't cause much of a problem (though it may make an existing problem worse), but any more than that is asking for a lot of trouble.

[phoebeisis]

Wow,
It really shouldn't be that hard to make fuel systems ethanol proof. Heck, just eyeball what distillers use, or what packagers of antiseptic ethanol use(yes, isopropanal is more common, but there is still plenty of ethanol antiseptic at your drugstore).
Ethanol really isn't a harsh chemical like a strong acid or base, or oxidizing agent.

Car corps don't charge much more for FFVs, so it really can't be that expensive to ethanol harden vehicles(yes, I know it is worth their while for CAFE reasons to FFV vehicles).

Heck, many early cars were ethanol driven(granted they weren't very reliable).

I would bet that Brazil doesn't have a huge problem with ethanol cars eating seals etc. It is probably just a question of not using the absolutely cheapest material-spend a few pennies more, and get good material-not the cheapest that will on average last 100,000 miles.
Charlie

[Taliesin]

Originally Posted by phoebeisis

Car corps don't charge much more for FFVs, so it really can't be that expensive to ethanol harden vehicles(yes, I know it is worth their while for CAFE reasons to FFV vehicles).

What did I pay for the upgrade to FFV?

$0

From what I have seen the FFV vehicles (with the same engine and other options) are the same price as the non-FFV vehicles of the same model.

It's a free "upgrade".

And the original Ford vehicles were all designed as FFV as well.

[PaleMelanesian]

It was free to you, but you can be sure it wasn't free to Chrysler. I doubt it was huge, but it wasn't zero. We'll likely never know how much it actually cost, though.

[Chuck]

Bumping up an old but classic article on the ethanol scam.