The Sonata On Trial

[MaxxMPG]

Originally Posted by PaleMelanesian

This is great! I must use this in my next explanation of hypermiling. "Every time you brake to a stop, you're wasting enough energy to destroy the whole front end of your car."

Andrew, take the image and all the relevant text from the article. This is something my dad explained to me when I first learned to drive. Look at the crushed front end of the car and think about how much energy it took to cause that damage, and then remember that you are wasting that much energy every time you stop from that same speed.

People think nothing of gunning the gas to the next red light. They wouldn't be gunning the gas if they were driving down an alley with a brick wall at the end. I explain it this way. "Think about it - unless you're timing the light, you are headed for a certain stop whether it's a red light or a brick wall. So why rush on to suffer such a loss? Less speed means less energy lost, and who knows - you may catch the light as it turns green."

[balshelmtov]

Originally Posted by phoebeisis

I wondered what had happened to this "Case".

One thing, the owner had suggested that he didn't get anything like HY EPA either ("never got over 20 mpg").
I didn't really see any numbers in respect to that.You seem to say it did deliver EPA HY.
What did that car do at 60 mph?? Did I miss that?
So the owner just has the worlds worst commute?
What did he get with his previous car??
Thanks
Charlie
PS My 1998 Suburban-cold motor 35 degree temps will deliver about 11 mpg on a 4.9 mile cold engine commute to work- very mild hypermiling. I have roughly that many stops, but average speed is more like 22 mph. So that is actually a much worse commute- I have a short stretch at 45 mph and no crawling at all- just gliding down at redlights/stops and pulsing up between stops to 35 mph or so.EPA is 12 mpg city.

PS so in respect to his city mpg the ORIGINAL POSTER WAS TELLING THE TRUTH!! He was honest not a lying SOB.
He just had the WORLD WORST COMMUTE.
OK case solved, but what did the car get at 60 mph?? A steady 60 mph mpg is a good marker for the vehicles mpg potential. It immediately tells you if the car is GOOD (leaking fuel, poor alignment, slipping trans, bad motor, bad electronic controls, soft tires, dragging brakes, filled roof basket). It removes driving style and driving conditions from of the test.
PPS 14 MPH VS 13.8 MPH-so mild Hypermiling adds 1.5% to driving time- figure one minute per hour added to get 25% better FE and longer drivetrain life-good trade.Almost certainly safer - not sure how to quantify that.

I am humbled by the professionalism and thoroughness of Chris' testing. The highway mileage over the course of 40 miles at @62mph according to the car's gauge read 39.5 mpg. I am a disciple of the Ultra Gauge and will run the same test at a later date, using it.

[ksstathead]

Originally Posted by balshelmtov

I am humbled by the professionalism and thoroughness of Chris' testing. The highway mileage over the course of 40 miles at @62mph according to the car's gauge read 39.5 mpg. I am a disciple of the Ultra Gauge and will run the same test at a later date, using it.

Great! Now you are rockin!

[FSUspectra]

Originally Posted by balshelmtov

I am humbled by the professionalism and thoroughness of Chris' testing. The highway mileage over the course of 40 miles at @62mph according to the car's gauge read 39.5 mpg. I am a disciple of the Ultra Gauge and will run the same test at a later date, using it.

So glad you were willing to take Chris up on his offer and got the solid answer you (and we ) needed to hear. Hopefully you're sleeping soundly at night knowing you didn't throw away a sizable chunk of change. And again, welcome to the site, and hopefully you'll have many more milestones to share!

[MaxxMPG]

Originally Posted by balshelmtov

I am humbled by the professionalism and thoroughness of Chris' testing. The highway mileage over the course of 40 miles at @62mph according to the car's gauge read 39.5 mpg. I am a disciple of the Ultra Gauge and will run the same test at a later date, using it.

Thanks for the compliment! It is greatly appreciated and it's something everyone at CleanMPG can share. We're all happy to see new people join us in our focus to reduce fuel consumption.

When you joined to register your dissatisfaction with the measured fuel economy on your Sonata, I immediately knew you were "one of us". After all, not too many people measure fuel consumption nor do they care about reaching or beating EPA fuel economy figures. So I think you have found your new home. You will fit right in here, and we're glad to have you aboard.

One warning - The quest for improved fuel economy usually causes even more frustration with the dopey maneuvers of other drivers on the road. You will become even more aware of how the actions of others are destroying their hopes of better mileage. The only defense is to try to anticipate what others will do and take action to mitigate the effects of their actions on your driving. Arriving safely is the primary goal. Gentle, steady driving will play a huge part in achieving that goal, and will also save $$$ at the pump.

Now that we have gained credibility, I can safely say that the best is yet to come for your new Sonata. As the temperatures warm and you get a few thousand miles on the odometer, it will seem to deliver better mileage with no apparent changes in route or driver. Further ahead, as the leaves fall once again and the supermarket freezers fill with dead birds, don't be surprised to see the mileage fall along with the temperature. It's something we all deal with and it just makes the victory of Beating the EPA (or doing the best you can on a given route/commute) that much sweeter.

Oh, and if your wife didn't switch the Eco mode back on, remind her to do it. We switched if off for the test. For the average driver, the Eco mode does offer a slight boost in fuel economy by commanding the transmission to upshift sooner (meaning at lower speeds). Every little bit will help in that challenging commute she travels every day.

-Chris

[phoebeisis]

BRAKE LIGHT-ACCELERATE-BRAKE LIGHT -ACCELERATE- BRAKE LIGHT -ACCELERATE
Yeah,Maxx is right-The above is what most drivers constantly do- for no apparent reason.
They accelerate to redlights!!
Drives me crazy! Red means STOP- lift off the gas!
Charlie

[Chuck]

Back around 2002 or so, a forum was discussing Honda Insights getting 70 mpg. At the time, I was getting mid-50s. I did not speak up, but I was in disbelief. Other people at times will say "it's the car." I reluctantly figured it was what I was doing, as several was getting stratospheric 70mpg. After exercising a lot more common sense and driving techniques, 70 mpg actually seems bad!

[balshelmtov]

I guess I'm the OP (not sure what this stands for). It seems there was a confluence of circumstances causing the car's poor "city" mileage. The most notable were and are that: the drive is infinitely more demanding than the EPA test, the drive is always begun cold, the trip is 4.5 miles each way and separated by over sis hours of the car just parked. Then of course the cold temperature and winter formulated gas through in some more negative factors just for good measure. Lastly, for whatever it's worth the car had only a few hundred miles on it when I became aware of this "issue". It has triple the number now and really a few thousand more before we can say it was broken in and working at peak efficiency.

[FSUspectra]

Originally Posted by balshelmtov

I guess I'm the OP (not sure what this stands for).

OP refers to the original post in a thread or original poster of a thread, which in this case, was you, as it was referring back to your original thread of your Sonata getting "horrible" gas mileage. Guess you won't have to go park it somewhere for a day with a nasty sign after all? So glad to see that is was just the fact that your commute sucks, and not to mention this car is A LOT bigger than your Civic was. But now you have the tools and gumption to tame it a little.

Good luck, and glad to see you sticking around!

[phoebeisis]

A dead cold engine KILLS tank mpg especially if your trips are short.
My 1998 Suburban would barely get 10 mpg on 33 degree days(6 am dark) for my 4.8 mile commute.
Trip home- 3 pm 50 degrees I would get 13.5.
On 70 degree days I get 13.5 there, and 15+ trip home(80 degrees).
Just the sunlight heating the engine/engine bay makes a big difference. for the "cold motor" trip home. A 70 degree motor/coolant(50 degree afternoon) is a much better starting point.I'll have to measure my afternoon coolant temp to see what it is after sitting in the sun for 8 hours.I suspect it is higher than the air temp.

Your -OP- starting temps are probably 30 degrees lower than mine- absolute poison for short trip FE.You are farther north- with low on the horizon winter sun- so you won't get much "solar heating" during the day. 20 degree air temps don't help much either.
Charlie