Honda adds to hybrid line

[Right Lane Cruiser]

Honda still does plan to roll out a hybrid version of its Fit subcompact late this year, though, and that one should have better fuel economy than any of Honda's vehicles, hybrid or not.

G. Chambers Williams III - SFGATE - January 31, 2010

Why does Honda think this is a wise introduction to the market? --Ed.

Honda's back with another entry in the hybrid segment, this time a sporty two-seater called the CR-Z, which was introduced in production form at the recent Detroit auto show.

Originally shown as a concept vehicle at the 2007 Tokyo and 2008 Detroit auto shows, the CR-Z will go on sale this summer as somewhat of a replacement for the sporty CRX model that Honda enthusiasts loved in the 1980s.

What the CR-Z actually is, though, is a two-seat version of the Japanese automaker's latest hybrid, the Insight, which debuted last year to anything but rave reviews. Looking like a slightly junior-size version of the groundbreaking Toyota Prius, the new Insight has yet to gain any traction in the marketplace.

As for the 2011 CR-Z, the hybrid part of the vehicle seems to be more of an afterthought than a primary consideration; the car is intended for the sport-performance crowd, not the “green” consumers who generally seem to want the most fuel-efficient, least polluting car they can find.

The latter group is sure to be as disappointed with the CR-Z as it is with the Insight, based on the CR-Z's expected fuel economy — 36 mpg city/38 highway with the optional continuously variable automatic transmission or just 35/37 with the standard six-speed manual.

That's way below the 51 mpg city/48 highway of the 2010 Prius and even the 40 city/43 highway of the 2010 Insight. And it's almost criminal compared with the fuel economy of the original two-seat Insight, introduced in 2000, which averaged... [Read More]

[jsmithy]

what is the word on the hybrid Fit? I want one.

[GreenVTEC]

Is this going to hit Europe?

Because aside from at home in Japan I can't see this vehicle making a splash anywhere.

[WriConsult]

I'm excited about the CR-Z, even though I'm disappointed by the efficiency/performance ratio -- doesn't seem much better than a properly geared gas car with the latest engine tech. But it is a unique vehicle, it IS cool looking and it can be improved.

If, as mentioned in the article, the Fit Hybrid will be here within the year and will offer mileage equal to or better than the HCH and Insight, two big questions:

• How are they going to price the Fit Hybrid? Price it below the overpriced Insight, and no one will ever buy an Insight again. Price it above, and you're going over and above the already-excessive $5000 "hybrid premium" commanded by the Insight. What to do?
• What happens to the other non-coupe hybrids in Honda's lineup? Speaking of making a splash, Insight and HCH sales are already in the toilet. A reasonably priced Fit Hybrid will hit the FLUSH lever.

Here's what I think Honda should do over the next year or so:

• Stick with plans for the CR-Z, but keep the entry price in the low 20s and commit to ongoing drivetrain improvements to bring up the bang for the gallon. Figure out YTF the MT gets such lower EPA numbers than the CVT and fix it. The CR-Z won't be a huge seller, but I doubt Honda expects it to be. It does fill a cool niche that no one else has touched, it is a good image vehicle for Honda, who has a proven track record with niche vehicles like the old Del Sol, the original Insight and the old Civic Wagons.
• Stick with plans for the Fit Hybrid. Price it at $18-19k for the base model, comparably equipped to the base Fit (including cruise, for crying out loud). Offer Fit Sport and Limited models with higher option levels including sport suspension, upgraded wheels/tires, Bluetooth, Nav, leather, sunroof, HIDs and other geegaws that jack up the profit margin. Toyota has done well by this strategy, offering at least 5 different trim levels on the Prius that top out with stuff I consider ridiculous but obviously lots of people are willing to pay for. Also at least THINK about offering this entry level hybrid with an MT.
• Pull the Insight from the North American market a year from now. You read that right, YANK IT. There's no way it can compete with the Fit Hybrid, so just stick a fork in it. It will still sell OK in Japan due to subsidizes, but it's done here. Honda should have called it something else so that they could reintroduce the Insight nameplate on the CR-Z, the true heir to the Insight label, but it's too late now.
• Introduce an HCH-III when the 8th generation Civic comes out (7th gen is in its 5th year, so should be soon), with wholly new IMA system: upgrade the IMA motor to at least 20kW, upgrade the pack size by at least 50%, put a clutch between the IMA and the ICE, put in folding rear seats (hinged higher than normal if that's what it takes), keep the price the same (as 'yota did with the Prius-III) and offer more and higher trim levels as with the Prius. Or, ditch the HCH and introduce an Acura TSX Hybrid with all this stuff so they can charge more for it.
• Start working on hybrid CR-Vs and Odysseys.

[seftonm]

I read this about the Hybrid Fit the other day:

Originally Posted by Honda Executive VP Koichi Kondo

There are plenty of people who think that the current Fit meets their needs already [when it comes to fuel efficiency]... a hybrid version might seem expensive. Our engineers are really struggling.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...d=aVJ6A3Wwfteo
I'd love a hybrid Fit and still hope it's on the way, and don't know how much faith to put in that quote.

[jsmithy]

Originally Posted by WriConsult

[*]Pull the Insight from the North American market a year from now. You read that right, YANK IT. There's no way it can compete with the Fit Hybrid, so just stick a fork in it. It will still sell OK in Japan due to subsidizes, but it's done here. Honda should have called it something else so that they could reintroduce the Insight nameplate on the CR-Z, the true heir to the Insight label, but it's too late now.[*]Start working on hybrid CR-Vs and Odysseys.[/list]

I agree. I had high hopes for the Insight II, but was very dissapointed in it after a test drive. Honda really messed up on this one IMO. The back seat is udderly ridiculous. At $20k I expect much, much more. I really wanted to like it, but can't.

However, I have always liked the Fit. Lots of utility for such a small car.

[PaleMelanesian]

I would personally LOVE a CRV or Odyssey or Accord wagon with Honda's own 2.2 diesel. It's got MORE torque than the 3.5 V6 in the Ody, and would give about 50% better mpg.

[xcel]

Hi Andrew:

___That 2.2L iDTEC in the Accord wagon would double the Odyssey or CRV's potential! That2.2L iCDTi engine was damn near magical and you were fortunate enough to drive it too

___Good Luck

___Wayne