Disengaging without clutch question

[kelly.cardona]

So I read a post about disengaging the tranny without the use of the clutch thus avoiding tear on the clutch this of course has to be done slowly so no major harm is caused. How bad is it really to do this if at all, I have tried it a couple of times but have not heard any grinding noises at all it seems smooth when I do it, but I want to make sure it will not cause major problems down the line of some sort. Any info on this is greatly appreciated. My ride a 2008 Honda Civic EX 5spd manual.

Thanks,

[applemac*fit]

I've wondered the same thing. I'm anxious to hear a reply.

[some_other_dave]

It's not really worth it. The throwout bearing is made to push on the pressure plate so it can release the clutch disk and decouple the transmission from the engine. It is made to do this millions of times before any sort of problem is encountered.

Pushing the car out of gear without using the clutch will put extra load on the "dog teeth" inside the transmission. If you time it just right (when the engine is not accelerating the car and the car is not decelerating the engine) you can avoid this load all together, but that's not that easy to pull off. Even if you don't, the load is pretty small--but these parts are inside the guts of the transmission and not that easy to replace. And I'm not sure that they're really made for that sort of operation either.

Replacing the clutch is easier than rebuilding the transmission. Even though the extra chances of having to do either are slim, I prefer the idea of keeping the transmission healthy for a long long time, even at the possible expense of some of the lifespan of the clutch.

-soD

[kwj]

Some other dave, when you shift into neutral using the clutch, and then release the clutch, where does the clutch end up?

The way I get to neutral without using the clutch, is to let off the gas, and gently push the shifter. If it doesn't slide out easily, I don't force it. I wait until it is not under any load, and it slides right out of gear.

On an old car, I used to practice shifting from second to forth and back with out the clutch, just properly matching RPMs. But, that's another story.

[psyshack]

I do it all the time and did it in my 06 Civic EX Sedan. As mentioned before. You have to do it just right. The engine and transmission both have to be in a unloaded state. If done wrong you do run a chance of clipping teeth on gears and also busting or bending up shift forks.

You can start paying attention to the engine and transmission load points and still use the clutch. As you get better at feeling the unload points. You will start using less clutch.

But never force anything!

psy

[lamebums]

I'm not as sure. I mean, it can be done, but a $200 clutch looks a lot cheaper to replace than a $2000 transmission.

[Shrek]

It's not about clutch wear. More about comfort. Pushing the clutch all the time is just annoying.

As your already hyper-sensitive hypermiling-foot ease off the gas, you pull/push your gearshift lightly. You will feel it starting to get loose, and suddenly it can be pulled to neutral. Use one finger when practicing - just to emphasise

There is no concern as long as it is done right.

Also, if you pull hard/too far across neutral you might engage the synchronisation of the opposite gear, i.e from 3. to 4.th, causing some wear on the synch. parts.
So just be nice and gentle.

[kelly.cardona]

Excellent, thanks for all the posts. That gives me a better idea, like I said I was doing it real nice and soft. I do like the using one finger to practice method, that will be real gentle with it. I do notice of course that when in 5th gear it's easier as the engine takes less to be under load, I know that anything else takes a little longer for the load to ease I know this by trying it in forth but when I felt resistance I stopped and used the clutch.

Thanks again

[vtec-e]

Originally Posted by kwj

The way I get to neutral without using the clutch, is to let off the gas, and gently push the shifter. If it doesn't slide out easily, I don't force it. I wait until it is not under any load, and it slides right out of gear.

I've been doing exactly this for ages with nothing worn out or broken yet. When the revs are right, the gearlever needs just a touch to go into neutral.

ollie

[some_other_dave]

Originally Posted by kwj

Some other dave, when you shift into neutral using the clutch, and then release the clutch, where does the clutch end up?

I'm not sure I understand the question, so let me describe my understanding of what goes on:

Clutch pedal not pressed, car in gear. Throwout bearing rides lightly on the "fingers" of the pressure plate spring, with the "inner" part spinning along with them (as the pressure plate is bolted to the flywheel, which is spinning) and the "outer" part holding still. Many cars will have the bearing not quite touching the fingers. The transmission's input shaft is turning because the pressure plate is holding the clutch disk to the flywheel, and the clutch disk is attached to the input shaft. The input shaft is connected through a pair of gears to the output shaft, which is being spun by the spinning of the input shaft.

Clutch pedal pressed, car in gear. The throwout bearing is pressing on the fingers of the pressure plate spring, which no longer clamps the clutch disk to the flywheel. The flywheel is still spinning because the engine is turning. The wheels of the car are turning the output shaft at whatever speed they are moving (which might be 0 RPM), and that goes through the engaged gear pair to turn the transmission input shaft. The input shaft is probably not spinning at the same speed as the flywheel is, though it could be. The input shaft of the transmission is no longer coupled to the flywheel of the engine.

Clutch pedal not pressed, car out of gear. The throwout bearing is now only pressing lightly (or not pressing at all) on the pressure plate fingers, causing the clutch disk to be clamped to the flywheel. The input shaft is therefore turning at the same speed as the flywheel is. However, the input shaft is not connected to the output shaft, because the gear selector is in neutral. The de-coupling is inside the transmission.

Clutch pedal pressed, car out of gear. The throwout bearing is pushing the pressure plate fingers, releasing the clutch disk from the flywheel. The input shaft is therefor decoupled from the flywheel. The gear selector is in neutral, which means the intput shaft and output shaft are also not connected. So the wheels may be turning the output shaft of the transmission, but they do not transmit that motion to the input shaft. The clutch disk and input shaft will probably slow down and stop turning (eventually).


...This leaves out how the gear sets actually connect or disconnect the input and output shafts, which gets somewhat harder to describe in writing. It also ignores a whole ton of other factors...

If you can do it perfectly, more power to ya. I'm not perfect (and I suspect that you aren't either), so I feel that pressing the pedal puts a tiny bit less wear on the trans. If you're comfortable not doing it, though, that's fine with me. I really cannot quantify how much if any extra wear you are putting on the transmission, versus the throwout bearing, clutch disk, and pressure plate. I just know that I far prefer the idea of replacing the clutch to that of tearing into the transmission.

Oh, and shifting without using the clutch at all is definitely going to wear things out faster than using the clutch!! BTDT, know several other people who have as well.

-soD