AVTL PHEV test baseline performance

[cuchulain]

Hello

Finally some test data from AVTL on PHEV prius

http://avt.inl.gov/pdf/phev/prius.pdf

Andrew

[xcel]

Hi Andrew:

___Thanks for the link!

___The item I thought was the most interesting was the highway FE over 20 miles. At 21 miles out on the HWFET, the darn thing is still pulling almost 130 mpg! I also saw the Valances were choked down to just a 50% of max SoC making their Prius-II essentially a PHEV-20. I have read the A123System’s Li-Ion’s can be opened to 80 + % and still hold a 10 year lifespan … supposedly?



___Notice this test (HWFET) is ~ 80% above 40 mph where the current Prius’ EV mode all but disappears other then downhill under warp stealth yet the DOE tests show Energy CS’ PHEV-20 receiving that magic 130 mpg.

___Good Luck

___Wayne

[cuchulain]

Originally Posted by xcel

Hi Andrew:

Your welcome

___The item I thought was the most interesting was the highway FE over 20 miles. At 21 miles out on the HWFET, the darn thing is still pulling almost 130 mpg! I also saw the Valances were choked down to just a 50% of max SoC making their Prius-II essentially a PHEV-20. I have read the A123System’s Li-Ion’s can be opened to 80 + % and still hold a 10 year lifespan … supposedly?

I have to admit, I was impressed. I noticed the 50%SOC, 10year battery life requirement was probably the reason. But anyway you still have 5kWh to play with. The Hymotion versions usually have less kWh to start with. Being able to charge both ways, I could probably do my whole commute at 150mpg....


___Notice this test (HWFET) is ~ 80% above 40 mph where the current Prius’ EV mode all but disappears other then downhill under warp stealth yet the DOE tests show Energy CS’ PHEV-20 receiving that magic 130 mpg.

AFIK At high SOC ranges(80%) at highway speeds, the Prius will preferentially fuel cut. In depletion mode it tries to do this as much as possible.

Although it is not T-sama version PHEV yet, hopefully it will be put pressure on them to deliver production PHEV. I would prefer a 2ndhand gen2 + PHEV conversion over a gen3 HEV with no PHEV capability.

Good Luck
Andrew

___Good Luck

___Wayne

[BailOut]

This is an Energy CS converted Prius rather than Toyota's planned PHEV for model year 2009/2010.

While this is interesting data I'm much more curious about Toyota's PHEV performance.

[cuchulain]

Some more updates on PHEV testing at AVTA, Hymotion Prius and Kangoo

http://avt.inl.gov/pdf/phev/7_Francf...ld_testing.pdf

They also mention that they will be acquiring a Hymotion Civic.

Andrew

[ericbecky]

Originally Posted by cuchulain

They also mention that they will be acquiring a Hymotion Civic.

Andrew

Hymotion Civic? Is that right?

I hadn't heard of that before.

Can anyone direct me to some info?

[cuchulain]

The AVTA PHEV section is at

http://avt.inl.gov/phev.shtml

from a DOE workshop it was mentioned here in the original link, page 10

http://avt.inl.gov/pdf/phev/7_Francf...ld_testing.pdf

Good Luck
Andrew

[cuchulain]

The Hymotion Civic is part of NYSERDA evaluation of conversion methods applicable to its fleet of Prius, Civic HEV and Escape HEV. I supposed blended mode operation would be significantly improved.

http://www.hymotion.com/pdf/Hymotion...%20Release.pdf

Good Luck
Andrew

[Dogarm]

So the PHEV analysis seems to suggest that the battery costs should approach ~$3300 for ~5kWh in order for there to be a reasonable payback period (and hence widespread business/consumer interest). AM I on the right track? And what are those types of Li-Ion setups, just the batteries themselves, costing currently? Like $10k?

Still, I'm sure there are a good number of us folks who would pay the extra 6-10k for a PHEV, even with a payback horizon of >10years. If at least to send our pocket-book-based message about energy independence and global warming, etc. I just can't help thinking it shouldn't being a 'conversion' in order to reduce the middlemen. So what is the great hope? Volt? Will Toyota have a sudden change about the next-gen Prius?

[cuchulain]

Originally Posted by Dogarm

I just can't help thinking it shouldn't being a 'conversion' in order to reduce the middlemen. So what is the great hope? Volt? Will Toyota have a sudden change about the next-gen Prius?

I can only guess, what will T-sama do for the next gen Prius. The Li ion batteries were not good enough so they are sticking with NiMH. From a manufacturing point of view, their current NiMH battery costs must also be very low. They must expect the next Prius to be very high volume so to change immediately to Li was unlikely.

This is where the difference in PHEV approaches becomes important, the hymotion approach uses a hybrid battery it retains the original NiMH battery which it falls back after the A123 Li pack is nominally depleted. Energy CS completely replaces the original battery. So a T-sama PHEV with hybrid battery pack seems more likely, they can give different warranties for each pack, purely PHEV option. And this is where you might see the Lithium pack when it is ready,PHEV only. They could also make a very low cost PHEV with NiMH. I dont think they had planned on PHEV just yet, so the Volt has probably forced them to bring on PHEV sooner.

Good Luck
Andrew