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GM tries to unplug Volt hype.

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Old 03-23-2007, 03:51 AM
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GM tries to unplug Volt hype.

There's just one problem: The Volt may never get built.

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/501/Lutz_and_the_VOLT.jpg
Sharon Terlep - Detroit News - Mar. 23, 2007

GM Vice Chairman Bob Lutz introduces the Chevrolet Volt concept at Detroit's North American International Auto Show. The Volt has attracted much attention since its unveiling in January.

General Motors Corp. seized the world's attention in January when it unveiled plans to build the Chevy Volt -- a plug-in hybrid car touted not so much as a mode of transportation but as part of a solution to the nation's energy crisis.

The Volt grabbed headlines, lit up online chat boards and dominated the buzz at the auto show in Detroit.

There's just one problem: The Volt may never get built.

Production depends on advances in battery technology that could be years away. The uncertainty led to intense debate within GM over whether it was wise to show the Volt in Detroit. And now that the world's waiting for GM to deliver what could be the biggest environmental breakthrough so far this century, company officials are actively trying to temper expectations.

The enormity of GM's challenge was evident last week when it called journalists to a backgrounder to explain the technological hurdles facing the Volt project -- and reiterate that it can't guarantee the futuristic car will ever hit the road.

"The pressure is intense," Nick Zielinski, the Volt's chief engineer, said at the event, which attracted more than 100 reporters. "We came out with this idea" and now people are saying, 'OK, where is this car. We want it now.'

The auto industry has disappointed before when it comes to green technology.

DaimlerChrysler AG promised a production fuel-cell vehicle by 2004, but couldn't deliver despite spending $1 billion on the technology. And little came of a $1.5 billion taxpayer-funded effort, called the Partnership for a New Generation of Vehicles, to build an 80-miles-per-gallon car. Last year, Ford Motor Co. took an image beating when it backed away from a pledge to put 250,000 hybrids on the road by 2010.

Still, GM's Volt gamble could pay off big for an automaker trying to transform its behind-the-times image. A vehicle loaded with cutting-edge green technology would position GM as an environmental leader and help it compete against foreign rivals that dominate the growing market for Earth-friendly cars and trucks.

The concept Volt is designed with an electric drivetrain and an internal combustion engine that recharges the vehicle's batteries while on the road.

While the range of plug-in cars has typically been no more than 20 to 30 miles on battery power alone, the Volt would have a range of 40 miles, GM says, and drivers wouldn't have to stop every time it needs a charge.

There's just one obstacle.

"All of this is irrelevant until they get a battery pack invented," said Joseph Phillippi of AutoTrends Consulting in Short Hills, N.J. "For a long time, they were out there knocking the idea of a plug-in hybrid. Now they're on board, but, theoretically, GM is still learning."

Remember GM's EV1?

The Volt isn't GM's first foray into electric cars. In the 1990s, the automaker spent $1 billion on its EV1 electric car program, which ended when GM demanded the return of its leased vehicles. The decision drew the ire of environmental groups and EV1 drivers and spawned the unflattering "Who Killed the Electric Car?" documentary.

GM chairman and CEO Rick Wagoner has called killing the EV1 his biggest mistake. For evidence he was right look no further than Japan's Toyota Motor Corp. The maker of the popular Prius hybrid has capitalized on its green image just as more Americans are embracing environmentalism.

With the Volt, GM has a shot at redemption.

"It's a breakthrough of immense magnitude -- potentially one of the two or three most significant game changers that we've seen in a long time," said David Cole, chairman of the Center for Automotive Research in Ann Arbor.

When the time came to unveil plans for the Volt, GM wanted to make a bold statement.

Wagoner began dropping hints about GM's plans in November at the Los Angeles Auto Show, where he listed developing alternative energy sources as one of GM's top priorities. When it debuted in January in Detroit, the Volt generated glowing praise for its striking appearance and the technology behind it.

Shortly after the show, GM launched a "Vote for Volt" Web site, which asks visitors if they think GM should build the Volt and if they would consider buying one. Nearly 440,000 people had cast votes as of Thursday.

With all the attention, though, has come intense and sometimes scathing scrutiny.

Some dismiss the move as a publicity stunt by a company struggling to stay relevant. Others question whether GM was being realistic in pinning its hopes on the uncertain science of battery technology. Still others say GM's Asian rivals are likely to beat it to the punch.

"GM has more of a recent history of failure than of being at the cutting edge," said Bruce Vanden Bergh, a Michigan State University advertising professor.

GM faces a credibility challenge with the American public, Vanden Bergh said.

If the Volt flops, it could do irreparable damage to the company's reputation.

"They'd better make it work," he said, "or they're going to look stupid."

Rival questions strategy

At least one GM rival questions the automaker's strategy.

Nancy Gioia, Ford's director of sustainable mobility technologies and hybrids, said while it is important to showcase innovative research, there is little value in committing to a technology that still generates more questions than it answers and may not even be commercially viable.

That's why Ford's plug-in hybrid was displayed in a corner of its Detroit auto show pavilion, rather than center stage, where GM showcased the Volt.

"If we say we're going to do something," she said. "You're going to see it."

Even GM insiders debated the wisdom of rolling out the Volt without the battery technology needed to power it and some early concerns have been realized. On Capitol Hill, for example, there is a general lack of understanding about how a concept vehicle becomes a production model, Zielinski said. As a result, GM's credibility is in question in some corners.

To deal with skeptics, GM has made public an unprecedented amount of information about a vehicle still in development.

GM Vice Chairman Bob Lutz said this week that GM's strategy is to let people know about any problems early so they don't feel duped should the Volt not succeed, a risk he estimates to be about 10 percent.

"Having said that," he wrote in an e-mail, "I am growingly convinced that we will pull it off."

No matter what GM's strategy, the automaker is bound to take heat, said Cole of the Center for Automotive Research.

"There are a lot of anti-GM skeptics," he said. "It's the penalty that comes with being No. 1."
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Old 03-23-2007, 08:12 AM
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Re: GM tries to unplug Volt hype.

Wow... and I always thought "soap operas" were not for me.
Seriously, I really hope that GM pulls through on this "Volt" issue - at least introduce just OK series hybrid - even if it sports a more modest (or no plug-in) capability. They should at least be able to do that. If they don't, then I fear no "battery improvements" in the world is going to help them.


Cheers;

MSantos
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Old 03-23-2007, 09:42 AM
Fenrir Fenrir is offline
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Re: GM tries to unplug Volt hype.

What exactly are the "technological hurdles" of the battery? If they could build the EV-1 more than 10 years ago with a range of what, 80 miles for the genII? why are they struggling to find a battery that will give the Volt a 40 mile range? What kind of black magic is Tesla Motors conjuring? They've got a Lithium Ion battery on the road right now that gives their Roadster a range of 300+ miles per charge. Is GM investing any money in battery manufacturers? Or have they simply thrown their hands in the air?

This wreaks of a FUD campaign. GM knows they'll have to retool themselves in a major way, and they dread it. So they're trying to delay it by spreading Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt about the prospects of cleaner transportation. I expect nothing more from them.
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Old 03-23-2007, 01:43 PM
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Re: GM tries to unplug Volt hype.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenrir View Post
What exactly are the "technological hurdles" of the battery? If they could build the EV-1 more than 10 years ago with a range of what, 80 miles for the genII? why are they struggling to find a battery that will give the Volt a 40 mile range? What kind of black magic is Tesla Motors conjuring?
Some of it may be Patent based. I recall that GM sold the battery tech of the EV 1 to Chevron and I don't think Chevron is licensing the technology back to GM.

Think Telsa uses Lithium-Ion. Should work in the volt too, but It may push the price point beyond where they want it. I didn't see any hard numbers on the Volt, but they may have said something like "Plug in hybrid for less than 30k". Thought the Telsa was somewhere around 100k.

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Old 03-23-2007, 08:17 AM
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Re: GM tries to unplug Volt hype.

I think it's good that GM went for transparency instead of secrecy. Also, since GM is doing so much new research, it could lead to the development of some other kind of hybrid even if the Volt doesn't work out.
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Old 03-23-2007, 12:27 PM
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Re: GM tries to unplug Volt hype.

I like this part:
Quote:
Nancy Gioia, Ford's director of sustainable mobility technologies and hybrids, said while it is important to showcase innovative research, there is little value in committing to a technology that still generates more questions than it answers and may not even be commercially viable.
And then this:
Ford bails out on hybrid promise
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Old 03-23-2007, 03:32 PM
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Re: GM tries to unplug Volt hype.

I agree... The hurdle in question is not technological but financial. GM obviously wants the Volt to be a midlevel car (hence the Chevy name and not Cadillac). Can they make a Volt)? Sure. Can they make it for $30k? That is less than certain.
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Old 03-23-2007, 04:19 PM
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Re: GM tries to unplug Volt hype.

Hi All:

___I am not sure why GM is backpedaling here although I will say that if the 08/09 Saturn VUE w/ its front drive 2Mode - PHEV works out, it may be more efficient then the Volt’s serial design and less expensive to tool for.

___Now about those batteries … We have spoken with some seriously connected people in this industry over the past 3 months and we keep hearing that the battery testing is exceeding expectations for both longevity and durability from both the battery makers and the OEM’s. We know the Prius II’s 1.3 kWh of Panasonic NiMH’s costs ~ $800 OEM w/ a touch over 40% range of SoC. An advanced Li-Ion pack with a 50 - 70% DoD need only be 15 - 20 kWh to achieve 40 miles of EV range. In bulk, the packs will probably cost between $4 and $5K. Less so in the near future. With the cost savings of GM’s 2Mode tranny and the downsizing of the ICE (we know GM is screwing up on that side of the equation wrt their near term 2Mode offerings), I see a G6 based PHEV starting in the low to mid-20’s. The Federal government will be giving away the store in terms of tax credits for a Domestic manufacture’s PHEV so expect to see the pack upcharge almost entirely subsidized with incentives.

___Let us all hope we here of more successes then failures in the future given it appears as if Toyota has been completely locked out from using A123 Systems Li-Ion’s? US government funding into MIT which is where A123Sytems got its start could be a reason possibly? I am sure Toyota is looking very hard to find there own supply of robust and PHEV capable Li-Ion’s from Panasonic EV or Toshiba but we have not heard much other then somebody’s Li-Ion’s will be used in the Prius III?

___Good Luck

___Wayne
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Old 03-23-2007, 09:40 PM
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Re: GM tries to unplug Volt hype.

With an onboard engine, why are the batteries a hurdle at
all? You start to run down, you just light the stinky
thing and you're golden until the fuel runs out. I don't
understand the supposed argument.
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Old 03-24-2007, 02:20 AM
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Re: GM tries to unplug Volt hype.

Hi Hobbit:

___The OEM’s and manufacturers know the packs work but they are all scared to death that the packs will lose a whole bunch of cap in the Arizona sun or Minnesota cold in 5 or 6 years with a bunch of replacements needed afterwards. That kind of news would blow up in all their faces and I believe they are not quite willing to trust the A123Systems/JCI-Saft Li-Ion test data just yet is all?

___Imagine if Prius I and II Panasonic packs all of a sudden needed replacement at the 5 or 6 year mark and 89,000 miles just beyond the warranty of most owners. Oopps! Toyota hybrid sales would grind to a halt overnight with current owners screaming bloody murder while shelling out $3K + for the smallish 1.7 kWh Ni-MH’s after such a short period of time. Toyota would never give you their $800 OEM price, that is a guarantee. Honda has been replacing the smallish Insight Ni-MH’s for owners who are far beyond their original warranties like crazy these past 2 years just so they don’t receive the bad press … I know people that have gone ballistic with a $1,500 tranny repair on a ton of different non-hybrid automobiles including older Honda Odysseys, Acura MDX’s and Honda Accord V6’s let alone Chrysler, GM and Ford products. Think sludge on not just 1% of the previous gen Camry’s but 50% and you have the picture. Can you imagine what most average owners would do if he or she received a $4K - $5K + bill for a pack on a car just out of warranty?

___Good Luck

___Wayne
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