What in your experience, is the hardest skill to master in hypermiling ?

[MT bucket]

Here is a new topic for those who have been working to save gas for a while now, what driving technique is giving you the most challenge so far?

For me it has got to be timing lights! I am downtown alot and the stop and go just kills my average fe for the day. I know all the tricks, what to look for etc... but I find myself either thinking i got it made and keeping going, only for it to suddenly change and I have to stop, losing all my lovely momentum, and having to start from scratch guzzeling fuel to get going again!, Or I think that it is going to change soon, so I start to coast down only to find it would have stayed green way long enough to keep going if I would not have slowed. Also less significant but related, mistiming lights as when to shut off the ice. come up to a red light thinking it will be red for a while, fas, then it goes green right away, or it looks like its about to change, so i idle, only to waste gas idling more than 10 seconds!

So what are the things you are learning that still end up using more fuel than you would like?

[xcel]

Hi Michael:

___All of the standard impediments and knowing the car can be tough to master but once you have them down, you are likely never having to relearn them.

___By far the worst item is learning to handle and adapt to different types of inner city and suburban traffic and terrain from different areas of the US. This changes from locale to locale, season to season and hour to hour including LA's high speed to stop and crawl, Boston and Chicago's mid to low speed waves, Manhattans gridlock, San Francisco's pedestrian friendly lights and the hills of both San Francisco and Seattle's downtown areas.

___I have to hold my tongue when a new member comes in and says their traffic is the worst and nobody can get great FE in it. We can all receive decent to excellent FE in anything as long as its moving and you are willing to work for it.

___That does not mean everyday is a piece of cake as we all have experienced a 5-hour stop and crawl at some point in our lives but hopefully they are only the 30-minute or less variety before it (traffic) begins moving in a manner that we can take advantage of

___The rest is relatively easy to deal with other than the frustration of mid to heavy rains, winter temps, winter conditions and Winter RFG E10 fuels

___Good Luck

___Wayne

[warthog1984]

Trying to figure Max FE driving (ideal launch, P&G, etc...) with VTEC, an AT and NO ScanGauge or other FCD (Yes, my numbers are solely off speedo, tach, and ear).

[Shan]

P&G:
- first because I didn't believe and it doesn't seem intuitive.
- second, determining the pulse rate.

[ILAveo]

Not being irritated when other drivers are thoughtless or impatient.

[lnmcmahan]

Michael,
There are several things I use to time lights. First going through a light a hundred times, you get an idea of what its tendencies are. There are some lights that I know I have good odds on and I will gamble on them even though I don't know when they changed. There are others I know will stop me 99.5% of the time. I ALWAYS plan to come up to them at almost a rolling stop. One trick my wife taught me to help time the lights, is to use the pedestrian walk lights. Some have count-downs. Others have a specific number of seconds after they start to flash. Other go from solid don't walk to flashing don't walk when they are about to change. Memorize the lighting sequences. Ours change between commute hours and non-commute hours. You have to know both sequences and what times they are active. I could go on and on, but you get it.
Larry

[MT bucket]

Great comments everyone! keep em coming!

[PaleMelanesian]

I'd have to say it's attitude. You can have all the techniques, but if you're driving angry, or tired, you're not going to get good mileage. I have to sit in the car and take a few deep breaths before I head out. It gets my "head in the game".

The other one is the timing of pulses and glides. Should I hold this glide out, or would pulsing for that rise be better? That comes with experience, and you have to adjust on the fly to any type of varying conditions.

[rdprice64]

P&G - I've been here 17 months and every time I think I've got it figured out, I realize that I don't. It is my focus for this spring and I have started getting some great (for me) commutes in the high 50s/low 60s. But then this morning it was a little colder and my EV glide wasn't coming as easily, which really angers me, so a few of my glides were ICE-on and I only got 50.7 coming in today. To Shan's earlier point, I think I don't have the right pulse rate figured out yet, but I'm working on it.

It has really hurt me that I haven't been able make it to a "meet up" and get a real clinic from someone who knows how its best done. For me, some things can't be read on a forum, they must be experienced in person to truly understand them. Plus, I am not a "car-person", so some of the terms and references are foreign to me. So I have to Google them and do my best to pick-up there actual meaning for the posts. That definitely makes it more difficult.

Great thread Michael. Thanks!
- Rob

[Taliesin]

So far it has been route selection, and I think this one won't be easy for you either.

As your skill set increases, the best route changes. In your case, your route isn't the same every day due to the different places you are going.

For me I have 5 different sections of my commute that can be considered as seperate and choose different routes for each.

1st section: can't change
2nd section: rural hughway or on the Air Force Base (the Base is the choice due to the limited number of stop signs/lights and 30 mph psl)
3rd section: 55 mph 2-lane or 65 mph 4-lane, with different hill configurations. I assume a drop to 45 mph going up hills, which isn't much of a problem on the 65 but is a problem on the 55 (it's a somewhat twisty and very hilly road, so no passing). this choice is really tough because of 4.
4th section: I have 3 choices. The first requires that I take the 55 mph 2-lane in the 3rd section. 45 mph psl and almost no traffic (with a 3 mile stint of 55 psl). It's got some hills, but fewer than the other routes. They are also situated so that crosswinds have less of an effect. The second choice is back to continue that 65 mpg 4-lane. I don't do too badly on it, but with any headwind it stinks. It's also the one with the HILLS. At least if I hit the bottom of the hill at 65 I still hold 45 at the top. The first and second choice have the same last 3 miles before the 5th. It's 45 psl, very little traffic, and a BIG HILL at the beginning and end and valley in between. I can make up a lot in this area since I don't have to use much gas accelerating down that first hill. The third choice also requires the 3rd section be the 65 psl. It's 3 miles of 55 mph psl followed by 5 miles of 35 psl. My biggest concerns are about the 35 psl section. Not much traffic at all, but we have HILLS again and dwl up these hills starting at 45 at the bottom (and holding 30 mpg or ~50 LOD) doesn't get me to the top without downshifting.
5th section: This can't change, but gets me a lot of gains. It doesn't start well with an uphill to start with, but I get to the top of that hill at 37 or higher and I can FAS all the way to my driveway (1/2 mile) as long as no traffic is behind me (55 psl).

The transition from the 3rd to the 4th sections could be difficult since there is a "town" in the middle. The speed limits are wonderful, but the town is still getting bigger and the roads haven't caught up to it yet so traffic is often stop-and-go.

For you it's going to be difficult since you will have to learn an entire city to pick and choose the best routes.