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-   -   New 0W-20 Synthetic Motor Oil from Mazda (http://www.cleanmpg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=45295)

xcel 10-10-2012 03:37 PM

New 0W-20 Synthetic Motor Oil from Mazda
 
Just look at those kinematic viscosity numbers!

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/501/Idemitsu_-_Mazda_0W-20_Synthetic.jpg
Wayne Gerdes - CleanMPG - Oct. 10, 2012

Idemitsu’s “Genuine Mazda 0W-20 GF-5 with Moly - Synthetic Engine Oil” – ILSAC GF-5 certified and sold in 1 qt. containers for $7.95 at a Mazda dealership near you.

A new motor oil is now available that will make you think twice about picking up the 5 qt. container of Mobil1 Advanced Fuel Economy 0W-20 (one of my favorites), possibly 5 single quarts of Pennzoil Platinum Full Synthetic 0W-20 or even having a few gallons of Amsoil Signature Series 0W-20 delivered to your door.

The new kid on the block was created specifically to reduce friction while providing the utmost protection for Mazda’s SKYACTIV-G gasoline engines available in both the Mazda3 and CX-5. The hyper efficient synthetic oil is engineered to improve Mazda SKYACTIV engine equipped Mazda’s fuel economy and deliver quick starts with fast lubrication for outstanding engine protection even in the coldest of conditions. This new engine oil also meets or exceeds the latest and very tough ILSAC GF-5 requirements.

Introducing the new “Genuine Mazda 0W-20 GF-5 with Moly” synthetic motor oil from Idemitsu. The advanced formulation is the result of years of research to develop a motor oil that provides the protection a modern day engine demands while providing the efficiency we all need.

Motor Oil 101

The main function of motor engine oils is to lubricate the cars internal engine parts so they run smoothly and are protected from wear and tear, for better efficiency and performance.

In the case of Idemitsu’s Mazda SAE 0W-20 GF-5 low viscosity synthetic formula, it provides outstanding quick cold temperature starting and fast protection in order to extend engine life. As a by-product, the utmost fuel economy is achieved from the initial turn of the key to heading down the road no matter what temperature or condition.

How does synthetic oil maximize fuel economy?

Directly out of the Mobil1 synthetic playbook, there are 4 key areas in an engine where large energy losses occur due to metal on metal contact and the resultant friction as described in the following:
  1. The Valve Train - Energy loss occurs in the camshaft bearings and also in the contact area between the valve and roller lifter.

    During warm-up, Mazda SAE 0W-20 GF-5 low viscosity synthetic formula flows faster because of its ultra low kinemetic viscosity at low temperature rating helps minimize initial start metal on metal contact friction and wear.

  2. The Piston and Cylinder - Energy is lost at the piston liner interface during the combustion cycle and especially before and after the midstroke when the crank angle is at its most severe.

    Mazda SAE 0W-20 GF-5 low viscosity synthetic formula works to reduce friction at the piston compression rings and skirts sliding up against the cylinder walls.

  3. The Oil Pump - In the oil pump, energy loss occurs due to rotational energy consumed by pumping heavier viscosity oils as engine temperatures increase to steady state operating temperatures.

    During the warm up phase in particular, the Mazda SAE 0W-20 GF-5 low viscosity synthetic formula’s lower kinematic viscosity flows more easily through the oil pump, requiring less energy to pump the oil to critical engine parts when they need it most and even after reaching normal operating temperature to improve engine efficiency and fuel economy even further.

  4. The Crankshaft - The main bearings and connecting rod bearings are two areas where friction abounds. Mazda SAE 0W-20 GF-5 low viscosity synthetic formula oil ensures low traction (internal fluid friction) to further contribute to improved engine efficiency.
The 0W-20 Full Synthetic Comparison – Kinematic Viscosity Ratings

Product Brand NameViscosityKinematic Viscosity at 40 degrees C (cSt)Kinematic Viscosity at 100 degrees C (cSt)
Mazda GF-5 with Moly0W-2035.08.3
Pennzoil Platinum Full Synthetic0W-2042.88.4
Mobil1 Advanced Fuel Economy0W-2044.88.7
Amsoil Signature Series0W-2047.38.7
Lower is better.

Mazda SAE 0W-20 GF-5 with Moly synthetic motor oil (MAZDA PART Number: 0000-G5-0W20-MQ) is the motor oil Mazda recommends for use in all of its 2.0L SKYACTIV-G engines.

Always consult your owner's manual for the correct viscosity choice and specification grade of oil required. And remember that our manuals viscosity recommendations usually allow a range of viscosities based on local temperatures expected between coil changes.

The synthetic oil maker, Idemitsu, is a large Japanese conglomerate involved in petroleum refining and the manufacture of oil, petrochemical and agricultural chemical based products. They are an employer of more than 8,000 with revenues exceeding $55 Billion USD in 2011.

A large thank you goes out to Dave Coleman of the Mazda Tech Group for providing us some of the details on this fantastic new motor oil! And I think you know what we will be using on our next fuel economy record drive ;)

diamondlarry 10-10-2012 04:07 PM

Re: New 0W-20 Synthetic Motor Oil from Mazda
 
Hmm, me thinks I shall visit a local Mazda dealer soon.;)

herm 10-10-2012 06:26 PM

Re: New 0W-20 Synthetic Motor Oil from Mazda
 
Larry, you keep accurate mileage records?.. it will be hard to tell the difference vs. $5.20 a quart Mobil 1 Advanced.

diamondlarry 10-10-2012 06:48 PM

Re: New 0W-20 Synthetic Motor Oil from Mazda
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by herm (Post 357922)
Larry, you keep accurate mileage records?.. it will be hard to tell the difference vs. $5.20 a quart Mobil 1 Advanced.

True, however if it can make the Insight's engine last that much longer, it could be worth it.

PaleMelanesian 10-10-2012 08:11 PM

Re: New 0W-20 Synthetic Motor Oil from Mazda
 
Just because the difference is small and hard to measure doesn't mean it's not there. If manufacturers are spec'ing lighter oil for mpg reasons, it should work for the rest of us as well.

Mendel Leisk 10-10-2012 08:43 PM

Re: New 0W-20 Synthetic Motor Oil from Mazda
 
Toyota and Honda also sell house brand 0W20, at similar prices. Would be interesting to see how they compare for viscosity.

Also, wonder how the Mazda oil would compare to regular 0W20 with moly additive.

RedylC94 10-10-2012 10:23 PM

Re: New 0W-20 Synthetic Motor Oil from Mazda
 
What's with the 40C viscosities? Why do they matter? If they're going to claim the stuff will "deliver quick starts with fast lubrication for outstanding engine protection even in the coldest of conditions," it would be far more relevant to list the 0F (or lower, but 0 is conventional) viscosity.

Also, there's no "metal on metal contact and the resultant friction" in healthy plain bearings at operating speeds (i.e., once full hydrodynamic film lubrication is established). There's still energy consumed in the bearings, though, shearing and pumping oil.

herm 10-10-2012 10:53 PM

Re: New 0W-20 Synthetic Motor Oil from Mazda
 
A snake oil additive with PFTE would not hurt either :)

xcel 10-10-2012 11:19 PM

Re: New 0W-20 Synthetic Motor Oil from Mazda
 
Hi RedylC94:

There is always some metal to metal contact or there would be no wear or fragments "until the oil film" is formed. The Alloy surfaces are lot harder than the shear forces of the lubricant and probably the products of combustion impurities that are suspended in it. Once the hydrodynamic film initializes, sure but that can take a second or more. This is an area where synthetics are supposed to do a much better job as well. Not only do the more even size molecular chains maintain that film better but for whatever reason, it possibly clings to the cold surfaces for longer period than regular oil from my understanding. Not sure of the mechanism of that second part but hopefully somebody will supply a link.

Wayne

RedylC94 10-11-2012 12:59 AM

Re: New 0W-20 Synthetic Motor Oil from Mazda
 
Hi xcel,

Thanks. My point, at least in part, was that it doesn't make sense for Mazda PR to claim the oil prevents "large energy [hence fuel, by implication] losses occur due to metal on metal contact" in bearings, when the only metal-to-metal contact is so brief with any reasonable oil. That's not to say it doesn't help fuel consumption, or reduce bearing wear during those moments of "metal on metal contact," compared to some other oil.

So far, no indications of bearing wear in my Mazda's engine, after 586K miles, roughly 1.7 billion revolutions, and innumerable cold starts.

xcel 10-11-2012 01:09 AM

Re: New 0W-20 Synthetic Motor Oil from Mazda
 
Hi RedylC94:

Actually this was not a Mazda PR and Mazda made no claims whatsoever other than supplying me with the bottle label and manufacturer that I had asked about some 3-months ago.

I had to dig all over the globe to come up with the details on this new synthetic oil including my comment "metal on metal" so anything posted above is completely my own. I was referring to the cold starts when I made that reference so I should probably clarify it with an edit.

I added "initial start" just after the "cold temperature" reference and just prior to "metal on metal" one.

IHTHs?

Wayne

phoebeisis 10-11-2012 05:47 AM

Re: New 0W-20 Synthetic Motor Oil from Mazda
 
I have some vague memory of Moly acting as some sort of sacrificial metal-
forming tiny welds between metal surfaces-then tearing away
My memory seems to "say" it makes the contact "weld" instead of steel to steel contact?

As I write this- it seems unlikely- but that is my memory?
In any case-seems like it is there for when the oil film fails or at start up when it-the actual oil molecules-haven't filmed up yet.
So maybe the moly is to cover any sins from the very thin oil.
I thought the moly-and higher zinc levels too "poisoned the cat con" ?
Charlie

PS I also have some vague memory that suggest that part of syn oils advantage is it doesn't need as high a concentration of viscosity modifying molecules as "regular oil" so it has a higher concentration of pure lubricating molecules-and therefore lubricates better(not sure why a vis modifying molecule wouldn't lube as well- but I'm guessing it doesn't)

wick1ert 10-11-2012 08:27 AM

Re: New 0W-20 Synthetic Motor Oil from Mazda
 
Interestingly, the 0W-20 OE by Amsoil has different viscosity numbers than the SS one. I switched to the OE variety this year on my oil change, mostly because it's less expensive and is rated to allow for my oil change intervals (which are 5k due to almost all trips under 5 miles). At 6.10/qt (unless you become a preferred customer, then it's around 20% less), and the ratings of 8.3 @ 100C & 44.2 @ 40C it sorta falls in the middle of the ones you listed. I wonder what the XL ratings are for the Amsoil.

tribosessive 10-11-2012 09:31 AM

Re: New 0W-20 Synthetic Motor Oil from Mazda
 
I currently use Eneos Sustina 0W20 motor oil. It would be very interesting to find out what base oil and additives Idemitsu is using in making the product that is the subject of this thread. I will definitely be cruising over to my local Mazda dealership soon.

RedylC94 10-11-2012 10:23 AM

Re: New 0W-20 Synthetic Motor Oil from Mazda
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by phoebeisis (Post 357958)
PS I also have some vague memory that suggest that part of syn oils advantage is it doesn't need as high a concentration of viscosity modifying molecules as "regular oil" ...

That's correct; it has inherently better viscosity index than typical "regular oil" does without VI improvers.

Oil viscosity varies significantly with pressure (which is a lot higher in the oil film in a loaded bearing than the pressure created by the oil pump), as well as with temperature.

Bruce 10-11-2012 01:27 PM

Re: New 0W-20 Synthetic Motor Oil from Mazda
 
I just picked up 5 qts each of Mobil1 0-30 and Pennzoil 0-20 to mix in oil changes for $25/jug...I have been questioning the wisdom of continuing with synthetics at all given it's burning a quart every 3000 miles, but I suppose they may help reduce wear with my frequent startups.

I'd need a 2-3% increase in FE for the Mazda oil to break even with Mobil1...it may offer a tiny increase in FE, but I doubt it'd be that much.

rhwinger 10-11-2012 03:55 PM

Re: New 0W-20 Synthetic Motor Oil from Mazda
 
Well, I'm giving serious consideration to this on the next oil change.

A couple years ago Honda was supposed to come out with a new high performance oil. Has anyone heard anything about this latelyl?

Thanks,

Bob

herm 10-11-2012 04:54 PM

Re: New 0W-20 Synthetic Motor Oil from Mazda
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Bruce (Post 358003)
I have been questioning the wisdom of continuing with synthetics at all given it's burning a quart every 3000 miles, but I suppose they may help reduce wear with my frequent startups.

Extend the oil change interval but change the filter occasionally since you are refreshing the additive package every 3000 miles.

uRabbit 10-13-2012 01:09 AM

Re: New 0W-20 Synthetic Motor Oil from Mazda
 
Hmm. Changed to AmSoil 100% Synthetic 5w20 when we did our first oil change in this car over 8,000 miles ago. Wondering if it will perform to its 20,000 mile mark, especially considering we only put about 250 miles on per month.

This Mazda oil has me thinking too. Would love to switch to 0w20 if it is not going to allow the engine to eat itself

msirach 10-13-2012 10:03 AM

Re: New 0W-20 Synthetic Motor Oil from Mazda
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by uRabbit (Post 358156)
Hmm. Changed to AmSoil 100% Synthetic 5w20 when we did our first oil change in this car over 8,000 miles ago. Wondering if it will perform to its 20,000 mile mark, especially considering we only put about 250 miles on per month.

This Mazda oil has me thinking too. Would love to switch to 0w20 if it is not going to allow the engine to eat itself

I have been using the Amsoil extended change oil since 2004 and haven't had any issues. They recommend 20,000 miles OR 12 months. Moisture is definitely a problem with driving as little as you do.

herm 10-13-2012 11:59 AM

Re: New 0W-20 Synthetic Motor Oil from Mazda
 
Just make sure the car gets thoroughly warmed up for 20 minutes... I have the same problem.

RedylC94 10-13-2012 05:45 PM

Re: New 0W-20 Synthetic Motor Oil from Mazda
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by msirach (Post 358190)
... Moisture is definitely a problem with driving as little as you do.

Especially if the 250 miles/month consists of something like a hundred 2.5-mile trips with cold starts. If it's more like five 50-mile trips, not so much.

uRabbit 10-13-2012 08:07 PM

Re: New 0W-20 Synthetic Motor Oil from Mazda
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by msirach (Post 358190)
I have been using the Amsoil extended change oil since 2004 and haven't had any issues. They recommend 20,000 miles OR 12 months. Moisture is definitely a problem with driving as little as you do.

This is true. I typically just wait for it to change colour to change it. Maybe I should change it at the one-year mark anyway.

I am wondering what kind of life expectancy this Mazda oil has...

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedylC94
Especially if the 250 miles/month consists of something like a hundred 2.5-mile trips with cold starts. If it's more like five 50-mile trips, not so much.

Just weekend drives to get groceries (8.1 miles up to 60 mph on State Route), get our Bountiful Basket (17 miles up to 40 mph on State Route), to Whole Foods for out-of-the-ordinary groceries (9.5 miles up to 60 mph on Interstate), and maybe some other driving that isn't much different than the aforementioned trips. :)

herm 10-13-2012 08:46 PM

Re: New 0W-20 Synthetic Motor Oil from Mazda
 
Anyone have experience with moly additives for motor oil?.. its popular in high velocity rifles and bullets. There are a few in the market, example:

http://www.schaefferoil.com/engine-oil-treatment.html

phoebeisis 10-14-2012 08:19 AM

Re: New 0W-20 Synthetic Motor Oil from Mazda
 
Herm

Wasn't it supposed to poison catcons?
Where did I get that idea-that Zinc and Moly-in fact many metals-poison cat cons if too much gets past the rings?
I seem to remember oil chemist had to decrease the amount of a Zinc additive several years back because of cat con concerns.

I still have some KalGard Engine Gard moly based additive- I used it on my old SR500's-seemed to work just fine- but that 1980 bike didn't have a catcon-.

Maybe modern engines have such good oil control it isn't much of a concern?
Or maybe current catcons are more resistant ??

I had no problems with the Engine Gard

I'm guessing Mazda is using the Moly to cover up up the "sins" of the too thin base- -perhaps at startup??_A just in case additive "since we have made this oil sooo thin- better have a plan B"

asharris7 10-24-2012 04:22 PM

Re: New 0W-20 Synthetic Motor Oil from Mazda
 
New to the forum. I had the new Mazda oil sent to blackstone labs. Good stuff!


PaleMelanesian 10-24-2012 04:27 PM

Re: New 0W-20 Synthetic Motor Oil from Mazda
 
Wow, thanks for getting that tested!

asharris7 10-24-2012 07:01 PM

Re: New 0W-20 Synthetic Motor Oil from Mazda
 
No problem! It has a really high VI of around 221. Really light on start-up and also has lots of Moly!

phoebeisis 10-25-2012 06:30 AM

Re: New 0W-20 Synthetic Motor Oil from Mazda
 
Herm

I remember-maybe 20 years back-maybe more- when reloaders were tumbling bullets-jacketed bullets-in some moly "stuff"-maybe they put it in with walnust shells??
Supposed to get less wear to high vel barrels-maybe less bullet distortion- more accurate.
Back then it was DIY- can't remember any "bought" moly coated bullets-
But that was a long time ago.

On another note- you should be smiling if those polls are in the ballpark.
If Romney is even within 3 pts in swing states-he would win since his voters are generally more likely to vote
We'll see-safe bet that if it is close- there will be a court challenge.

herm 10-25-2012 08:19 AM

Re: New 0W-20 Synthetic Motor Oil from Mazda
 
They still are using moly for that.. usually just tumble the bullets with powdered moly until they get plated, plus there is a procedure to cleaning and breaking-in the barrel. I have a special moly grease concoction (mixed with oil, for airgun springs), very slick when used on a trigger.. instant trigger job.

I dont trust polls that much.

tribosessive 06-02-2013 05:37 PM

Re: New 0W-20 Synthetic Motor Oil from Mazda
 
I have recently completed a 60k mile consumer field study with Sustina 0W20 motor oil. Used motor oil testing shows that even in using this very lighest of motor oils for 20k miles, it has given me excellent engine protection. It has also given me a 3% improvement in fuel economy. If at all humanly possible, everyone should be using Sustina 0W20, Mazda with Moly 0W20 or Toyota Genuine 0W20 motor oils. I applaud hypermilers. Using these super light motor oils will help create a synergy that will take you even higher.

SI_Prius 06-03-2013 01:02 AM

Re: New 0W-20 Synthetic Motor Oil from Mazda
 
Is there a old Mazda 0w-20 and how do you recognise the new one (with moly)?

The reason I'm asking is because I have send many e-mails to local on-line sellers (Europe) for any 0w-20 oil, I had only one positive response with Mazda 0w-20 (€ 10.50), the guy said it's manufactured by Total, that is all the info I got. So the second question would be: is Mazda oil from Europe the same as the American, because it's manufactured by a French Total?

One year ago I bought Mobil 1 0w-20 from German ebay, it's not available any more instead the same ebay seller is now offering Total QUARTZ 9000 FUTURE 0W-20 (€ 5.95) with viscosity values:

-@ 40C, cSt (ASTM D445) 40
-@ 100C, cSt (ASTM D445) 7.5

Spec sheet

Ok, there are others, but some are expensive (Castrol, Motul, Fuchs ...) and some are just uknown to me (Rowe, Ravenol). What to choose?

tribosessive 06-03-2013 06:26 AM

Re: New 0W-20 Synthetic Motor Oil from Mazda
 
Sustina (JX Nippon), Toyota Genuine (Exxon-Mobil), and Mazda with Moly (Idemitsu) are very specific motor oils with the winning feature of being significantly lighter than all other motor oils. They have very high viscosity indexes. Toyota Genuine may be your best option. If you start looking at specs, please note that the form of moly used in this oil is very potent.

SI_Prius 06-03-2013 07:50 AM

Re: New 0W-20 Synthetic Motor Oil from Mazda
 
Here Toyota dealership uses genuine Toyota motor oil, but they use 5w-30 for Prius and at the price of €20+ per liter. So no I can not and will not use Genuine Toyota 0w-20 oil.

Around here no one is using 0w-20, so every shop is saying that is not worth for them to import such a oil and sell only a few cans ...

The only options are Total, Mazda, Honda, Castrol, Motul, Fuchs, Rowe, Ravenol, OMV, some of them have funny prices over €15/l.

tribosessive 06-03-2013 08:54 AM

Re: New 0W-20 Synthetic Motor Oil from Mazda
 
There ought to be better options for you! Maybe you can thin out your oil with some Motul Sprint 0W15. Fuchs 0W20 is an outstanding motor oil but it is a thick 0W20. The Mazda with moly oil was developed for their SkyActiv technology. It would be great if that exact oil came to the continent soon-at a reasonable price. Driving style is always the number one factor in improving mpg-go hypermiling!

xcel 10-15-2013 05:15 PM

Re: New 0W-20 Synthetic Motor Oil from Mazda
 
Hi All:

While at the Shell/Pennzoil Houston GP two weekends ago, a lot of the scientists on hand were talking about 0W-16 and 0W-12 weight synthetics coming soon. I mentioned the Mazda oil from Idemitsu and although none of them have tested it specifically, they knew about ultra low viscosity oil being produced for some Asian OEMs.

As an update, I added Quaker State’s Ultimate Durability to the list as it is my favorite low cost synthetic currently.

The 0W-20 Full Synthetic Comparison – Kinematic Viscosity Ratings

Product Brand NameViscosityKinematic Viscosity at 40 degrees C (cSt)Kinematic Viscosity at 100 degrees C (cSt)
Mazda GF-5 with Moly0W-2035.88.37
Quaker State Ultimate Durability0W-2042.68.39
Pennzoil Platinum Full Synthetic0W-2042.88.4
Mobil1 Advanced Fuel Economy0W-2044.88.7
Amsoil Signature Series0W-2047.38.7
Lower is better for us.

Asharris7, thanks for those test results!

Wayne

tribosessive 10-16-2013 09:51 AM

Re: New 0W-20 Synthetic Motor Oil from Mazda
 
Xcel, thanks for touching on my pet subject, very high viscosity index motor oils. I have done an 8k mile run on high-moly Mazda, and it is a favorite of mine also. Mazda, Toyota , and Sustina super-light motor oils can give you a nudge in fuel economy, only adding to the benefits of hypermiling techniques. Of the majors, Mobil One AFE 0W20 and Pennzoil Platinum 0W20/5W20 are excellent choices. Ultimate Durability gives great value. Amsoil still makes a superb product.
I would also like to thank Asharris7 for introducing me to high-moly Mazda motor oil. It is velvety smooth at startup ala Amsoil. It runs quiet, inspite of being so light in viscosity. Performance and mpg are only slightly below Sustina.


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