New Tech from Delphi to boost FE
 

Delphi engineers have found a way of using direct injection on petrol engines, and the breakthrough could revolutionise engine efficiency

Jon Morgan - AUTOEXPRESS - June 6th, 2012

Who needs a PHEV with this sort of efficiency? --Ed.

Engineers at Delphi say that the next generation of gasoline engines will offer the same FE as PHEV's without the extra weight and cost. They have worked out how to incorporate the direct-injection method of ignition used in diesels into gasoline engines. And the potential benefit is staggering.

Harry Husted, Delphi’s chief engineer for advanced powertrain development, said: “The results of initial simulation work show this technology could improve engine efficiency by up to 50 per cent.”

Delphi’s gasoline direct-injection compression ignition system uses sophisticated valve timing, intake and exhaust tech to inject gas in precisely controlled bursts. The company has successfully developed and tested a single-cylinder engine prototype and is already working on a more advanced system.

Husted added: “A multi-cylinder engine is being developed and will be ready to test later this year. It’s going to be a very torquey engine, with a similar feel to a diesel.”

And the new engine will have an immediate advantage over a diesel – and extra appeal to manufacturers: as unleaded fuel burns more cleanly than diesel, gas engines don’t need an expensive and highly complex... [Read More]

Re: New Tech from Delphi to boost FE
 

Nice!!!. You could theoretically increase the average gasoline powered fleet fuel economy by 40 to 50% over the next 15 years.

Think about it a 2020 Z06 Corvette getting better fuel economy than a 2013 Cruze. :D

As they say we are living in interesting times.

Re: New Tech from Delphi to boost FE
 

Mercedes’ compact saloon gets a hi-tech, downsized petrol engine that promises diesel-like economy

http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/ne...-turbo-c-class

As of 2 minutes ago there were 0 out of 1856 current new UK gasoline vehicle offerings rated Euro Step 6 emissions compliant.
http://carfueldata.direct.gov.uk

Diesel still seems to have the advantage at 90~110 versus gasoline at 125~129 gCO2/km.

Re: New Tech from Delphi to boost FE
 

I will believe it when I see it, I dont think it will beat an atkinson cycle hybrid in economy, and cost.

It still good to see Delphi is still alive.

Re: New Tech from Delphi to boost FE
 

Harry Husted, Delphi’s chief engineer for advanced powertrain development, said: “The results of initial simulation work show this technology could improve engine efficiency by up to 50 per cent.”

A 50% increase in fuel efficiency and reduced complexity would be a game changer. Coupled with hybrid drivetrain, what would THAT do?

Re: New Tech from Delphi to boost FE
 

HCCI is just around the corner!!

...... for the billionth time. (Prolly trolling for another gubment grant).

/add, Delphi's history page from wiki reads like a "how to" list for crooks and liars:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delphi_Automotive

Re: New Tech from Delphi to boost FE
 

Exactly my thoughts when I first read this. I'd almost go back to a regular ICE vehicle again (cost analysis pending) as that could possibly be close to what I get currently. I just know, that I'm not willing to go more than 10% less FE than what I get now in the future.

Re: New Tech from Delphi to boost FE
 

The AutoExpress article is a bit confusing. There are *already* many vehicles with direct injection petrol engines, it's the compression-ignition which is new for petrol engines. The FSI engine in the A2 for example has been around for well over a decade. According to Wiki there have been direct injection petrol engines around since 1925.


> ... So say engineers at US technology company Delphi, who’ve worked out how to incorporate the direct-injection method of ignition used in diesels into petrol engines. ...

Presumably they're just copying this from a press release without understanding it, since the above sentence doesn't really make sense.

Re: New Tech from Delphi to boost FE
 

Why so far off into the future when Mazda and the Koreans have GDI now?

Re: New Tech from Delphi to boost FE
 

I'm sure this and other further developments of the ICE will be impressive but the fact remains that these engines are obsolete. There were wonderful improvements to steam in its closing days and bell-bottoms can still be found in a very few stores, but automotive propulsion must (and will) move on.

Re: New Tech from Delphi to boost FE
 

The maximum efficiency of an internal combustion engine is ~54%. This improvement brings gasoline engines up around where diesels are already, right?

We already have electric motors that are 94% efficient.

That is why we still need plugin cars; both hybrids and pure electrics!

Re: New Tech from Delphi to boost FE
 

I generally agree with you about electric motor efficiencies.

However, average electric generation efficiency in the US is below 50% [average US coal plant 34% efficient], electric distribution probably is about 85%, and battery pack charging/discharging probably less than 85% (including related battery losses possibly even less) ...

Best guess ... efficiency is probably below 40% before energy even gets to the motor.

Just trying to think it through ...

Anybody get better numbers?

Hybrids no question ... inertial energy recycling and operational optimization at cruise as demonstrated by Hyundai for example.

Plug-ins will become even more important as all aspects of the system improve from energy source to the wheel-road interface.

None the less ... ICEs are not done yet!

... this summer (2012) http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/ne...-turbo-c-class

Re: New Tech from Delphi to boost FE
 

But if we're going to consider generation efficiency, then to make a valid comparison with ICE engines we have to consider refinery efficiency, which is less than 100%.

If we're going to consider electric distribution efficiency, then we also have to consider the distribution efficiency of refined gasoline or diesel. It does take additional energy to push gasoline or diesel down the pip and/or get it around by rail cars, and then truck it out to the filling stations.

Re: New Tech from Delphi to boost FE
 

how about if you have solar cells on your roof?.. I doubt the efficiency of those is any better than 15%.

Careful when you use that word efficiency, its all relative... it may be applicable to this discussion of ICE vs Electrics if we still used oil to generate electricity at the powerplants and we dont.

Re: New Tech from Delphi to boost FE
 

Interesting concept they have there. If you were to up the compression to around 20:1 and use the piezo-type injectors to direct inject the fuel and make the gasoline engine a compression ignition, this could get very interesting.

Re: New Tech from Delphi to boost FE
 

If I understand this correctly, the Delphi system is way more than direct-injection, it uses compression ignition much as a diesel does. This is something that automotive engineers have been trying to do for DECADES , and the supporting tech hs finally caught up. This is gonna be interesting.

Re: New Tech from Delphi to boost FE
 

According to Argonne National Laboratory's GREET model (http://greet.es.anl.gov/), diesel is on average about 82.5% efficient in the well-to-pump stage, gasoline is 80.2% efficient, and electricity about 40.4% based on the current U.S. grid mix.

EV uses less energy overall well-to-wheels however, according to the GREET model.

Re: New Tech from Delphi to boost FE
 

http://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.cfm?id=105&t=3

"According to EIA data, national, annual electricity transmission and distribution losses average about 7% of the electricity that is transmitted in the United States."

Re: New Tech from Delphi to boost FE
 

compression ignition for 10% ethanol regular 87 oct gasoline would be interesting but the plus eight years makes it blue sky. I wish them the best though.

Re: New Tech from Delphi to boost FE
 

I agree that full analysis is required.

In fact most of that technology (not plug-ins) was recently done by wxman : 05-29-2012 at 03:08 PM.
http://www.cleanmpg.com/forums/showp...58&postcount=3

Emissions comparison: US 2012 Passat TDI versus PZEV version of the 2012 Passat
http://www.cleanmpg.com/forums/showp...3&postcount=10

Emissions comparison: EU Toyota Yaris Hybrid versus Ford Fiesta 1.6L TDCi
http://www.cleanmpg.com/forums/showp...4&postcount=19

This was a very enlightening thread.

Now all we need are comparative results for plug-ins.

And BTW, here is an interest aspect of what is going on outside the US.

With a look at Regional geo-political statutory CO2 emissions requirements and competitiveness of markets!

The EU is currently under a binding target of 130 gCO2/km for OEM fleet average by 2015 with escalating financial penalties based on gCO2/km over target multiplied by total number of vehicles sold . Currently, the UK fleet average appears to be headed below 138 gCO2/km [about 43 mpg(US)] before 2013 with a 53% 2012 diesel market share.

However, the expected target for 2020 is to lower CO2 emissions to an OEM fleet average of 95 grams per kilometer [about 58/66 mpg(US) fleet average for gasoline/diesel respectively]. The penalty for noncompliance is €95 per gram over target multiplied by all vehicles sold by the OEM. A finalization of this objective is expected before August 2012.

China and India are following similar paths on a slightly delayed schedule. That would result in 73~84% of world automotive markets potentially above 55 mpg(US) fleet average by 2020.

Meanwhile back in the States, IF I understand correctly, the US will probably be “struggling” with a fleet average of about 38~40 mpg in 2020 based on the proposed 2025 CAFE being discussed. This could easily be 30% BELOW EU and worldwide statutory requirements and product.
http://delphi.com/pdf/emissions/Delp...-2012-2013.pdf

Keep in mind that CO2 is an artifact (residue) resulting from hydrocarbon oxidation. The amount of WORK accomplished per unit of CO2 released is a measure of efficiency.

Released thermal energy (heat) is another artifact of combustion.

You will have to decide for yourself how important these are to you and your family/friends/neighbors/OUR nation.

EDIT: I had not read this complete thread. Thanks for the input WXMAN!

ItsNotAbout ...

Thanks for the input on grid loss. I find it hard to believe that 1 step-up and 3 step-down transformers plus IR losses are less than 10%. But I'll try to remember the 7%.

Re: New Tech from Delphi to boost FE
 

The issue has always been driveability and NHV.. but torque should be diesel-like due to the high compression. What happened to the system GM was working on?, supposedly they actually had cars on the road.

Re: New Tech from Delphi to boost FE
 

QUESTIONs:

What data source do you use for electrical energy consumption rate?

Does the on-board instrumentation reports kW/100 miles reflects energy applied to the wheels?

OR does it report energy drawn from the grid to charge the battery pack/miles driven?

According to http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/phevsbs.shtml
and http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/evsbs.shtml

the range of consumption rates is 29 to 46 kWh/100 miles, "average" about 37 kWh/100 miles.

Shouldn't the 37 kWh/100 sucessfully include all onboard inefficiencies?

Thoughts would be appreciated!

Re: New Tech from Delphi to boost FE
 

The EPA ratings are calculated by running tests and then measuring the A/C used to charge the car. So, it's wall-to-wheel.

http://www.imiev411.com/c/explaining...-your-customer

The only question would be whether a home user would get the same efficiency when charging the car. Also note the "fudge factor" they apply to knock the mileage down. ;)

Re: New Tech from Delphi to boost FE
 

So if efficiencies to the pump or wall socket are 82% 80% 40%
to the tank or battery they are 82 80 .4X.9=36%
The the wheels a reasonable guess .82x.4x85 .8X .3x.85 .36x .95 x.85
.28 .21 .29
So electric motors batteries and 40% coal NG Nukes win even now?
I'm using 40% inherent efficiency for diesels 30% for gasoline
Assuming all three get 85% to the rear wheels
Hard to beat and electric motor.
Now if "we" ever get fuel cells that use something like gasoline or methane- or a way to produce H2 from coal-and leave a residua of carbon instead of CO2- or a non gas carbonate-in the ground
On of our posters-fuel cell man forget his name- claims there is already a "good way" to produce H2 and methane in the ground from coal??

Re: New Tech from Delphi to boost FE
 

According to GREET, the default EV consumes 3951 BTU/mile well-to-wheels (mine-to-wheels) based on the current U.S. mix. For comparison, the baseline gasoline car consumes 5750 BTU/mile WTW.

A fuel cell vehicle using gaseous H2 consumes 3418 BTU/mile according to GREET.

Energy and GHG emissions are graphically displayed for selected fuel pathways and vehicle technologies on the GREET web site at http://greet.es.anl.gov/results.

Somewhat surprisingly, soy-based biodiesel is the most energy-efficient fuel of all of the fuel pathways identified in GREET in the well-to-pump or mine-to-plug stage. It's about 90% efficient according to the GREET model.

Re: New Tech from Delphi to boost FE
 

Awesome! At least from April to October (when we can run B99), the fuel going into our Golf is a blend of soy/canola based biodiesel, mixed with recycled fryer-sourced biodiesel (which should be even more efficient, though perhaps not in the GREET model).

Re: New Tech from Delphi to boost FE
 

Growing soy and "refining it" is more energy efficient than pumping out NG or pumping refining petroleum?
Never would have guessed that??

How in the world do the Brazilians manage to "do it" with sugar cane-ethanol??
We grow sugar cane- but I kinda doubt we could do it cheaply enough to put it in our tanks?

Re: New Tech from Delphi to boost FE
 

According to GREET, CNG is 85.2% efficient well-to-pump, and LNG is 82.5% efficient WTP.

Re: New Tech from Delphi to boost FE
 

So you can plant fertilize spray harvest squeeze and refine soy oil-and yo'll only use .1 gallon of oil to produce 1 gallon of soy diesel??


Just how much does vegetable oil sell for-bulk- before taxes ?? $2 gallon?? So fry oil is maybe $3 gallon in stores? I never buy it- have no idea.
.
It must be cheaper than refined diesel-which I guess is $$2.75 before taxes
-

Re: New Tech from Delphi to boost FE
 

about $0.50 a lb, or $3.50 a gallon

Re: New Tech from Delphi to boost FE
 

A friend has been making his own biodiesel for more than 5 years at a current cost of about $1/gallon. And, no road tax, about 59.4¢/gallon in NC, for personal use.

Re: New Tech from Delphi to boost FE
 

Herm- $3.50 a gollon in the store-so maybe wholesale bulk price is 1/2 that?
So it is cheaper than diesel.
Guess if it was actually used much for fuel the price would spike-and we would quickly pump every water source dry trying to grow it
Thanks
Charlie
PS Just how much land/water would it take to produce 40 x20,000,000-gallons of "oil" a day?
How much soy oil is produced per acre-one crop per year I guess.

Re: New Tech from Delphi to boost FE
 

Thats the market spot price, around 50 cents a pound I think.. about 7 pounds per gallon but I'm not sure how much it would end up being as biodiesel.. I think you add methanol. Methanol is very cheap. I do keep an eye on oil prices at the local supermarkets, soy vegetable oil is very cheap, usually lower than corn oil but it does have a slight fish smell to it. It would be cool to run a steam engine on any of these oils, or even used animal fat.

How about corn oil, rapeseed oil, palm seed oil?.. Cuban Royal Palm fruit is an excellent finishing feed for pigs, a delicacy in the South Florida area. Lots of oil in those palm fruits.

The Cuban Royal Palm.. I wish I had a few but they require lots of room:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roystonea_regia

Diesel is evil.. actually I think the carcinogenic problem does not apply to biodiesel:

http://www.greencarcongress.com/2012...-20120613.html

WHO IARC classifies diesel exhaust as carcinogenic to humans (Group 1)

13 June 2012

"After a week-long meeting of an expert working group, the International Agency for Research on Cancer (IARC), which is part of the World Health Organization (WHO), classified diesel engine exhaust (DEE) as carcinogenic to humans (Group 1), based on sufficient evidence that exposure is associated with an increased risk for lung cancer. The summary of the evaluation will appear in The Lancet Oncology as an online publication ahead of print on 15 June 2012.

The working group also concluded that gasoline exhaust was possibly carcinogenic to humans (Group 2B), a finding unchanged from a previous evaluation in 1989. In 1988, IARC classified diesel exhaust as probably carcinogenic to humans (Group 2A). An Advisory Group which reviews and recommends future priorities for the IARC Monographs Program had recommended diesel exhaust as a high priority for re-evaluation since 1998."

Re: New Tech from Delphi to boost FE
 

check this thread out, I hope DBrown pops in and gives us a farm report..

http://www.cleanmpg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=40774

Re: New Tech from Delphi to boost FE
 

It takes about 7-8kWh of electricity to produce a gallon of gasoline -- from conventional crude oil. Nowadays the overhead of invested energy to extract heavy sour crude (which requires millions of gallons of heated water, heated with natural gas!) or fracking for oil (and fracking for the gas used) or for the Alberta sand bitumen is probably FAR more.

So, if you want to add this overhead to electricity used for EV's, then you must also add the overhead for the electricity and the gas and the water for the oil we now are using, as well.

The electricity alone used for conventional oil would let a Nissan Leaf travel at least 22 miles. That means that an EV would use only 7.5kWh while the typical gasoline car would use the equivalent of (at least) 41.2kWh (33.7 + 7.5) to travel the same 22 miles.

That is about 5.5X more energy; or about 450% more energy.

So, if you want to make the "long tailpipe" argument, that's fine. Any equation must be balanced, and EV's come out a lot better.

Re: New Tech from Delphi to boost FE
 

NeilBlanchard

Take a look at http://greet.es.anl.gov/results

It looks at

total system input - Btu/mile
fossil input - Btu/mile
petroleum input - Btu/mile
GHG - gCO2/mile

Hope this contribution from WXMAN helps.

Re: New Tech from Delphi to boost FE
 

soy oil yield about 70~80 gallons/acre year.

rape seed ~ 127 gallons/acre year

palm oil ~ 635 gallons/acre year

jatropja ~ 890 gallons/acre year

pre-2006 numbers

Aglea is now probably >2,000 gallons/acre year [There are process scale up and water extraction problems (high energy & $ cost). However, progress is being made.]

Re: New Tech from Delphi to boost FE
 

Argonne National Laboratory has extensive documentation for the development of the GREET model at http://greet.es.anl.gov/list.php if anyone is interested.