Fuel efficient cars reduce Federal gas tax
 

By 2040, the new rules will reduce the nation's gas tax revenue 21 percent annually.

David Sherpardson - DETROITNEWS - May 3, 2012

Financing our roads gets more complicated as the US drowns in ever increasing debt --Ed.

Washington —Rising fuel-efficiency standards will cut gas tax revenue by $57 billion through 2025, the Congressional Budget Office said in a report released Wednesday.

The government should consider hiking the 18.4 cent per gallon federal gas tax — which hasn't been increased since 1993 — or cutting spending on road repairs or paying for repairs through the general budget, the report said.... [Read More]

Re: Fuel efficient cars reduce Federal gas tax
 

I listened to an NPR news story on this topic a week or so ago. It drives me insane that so many view the simple solution...increase the tax as the fleet becomes more efficient...as untenable. "It will never happen because no sitting politician will propose it." Instead we get all this talk of a per-mile tax and the headaches and expense of implementing it. (How are they going to find out how far I drive each year? How are they going to account for the damage a Durango does to a road vs. Chuck's Insight?) One more reason I hate politics.

Re: Fuel efficient cars reduce Federal gas tax
 

Interesting thoughts ...

Doubling Federal and State fuel taxes would only add about 50¢ per gallon. That would be about a 12% increase based on current fuel prices.

Is that really make-or-break?

Sure it is not comfortable ... but taxing by the mile or some other scheme ... will require additional technology (retrofits anyone?) and MANY more government personnel to to operate.

At least that is the way I see it.

Obviously plug-ins are a different situation ... that WILL be addressed ... soon?

It seems to me that the simplest solution for plug-ins would be a $450/$250 "road use tax" paid along with annual license plate re-registration for a BEV/EREV (Volt?) respectively???

JMO ...

Re: Fuel efficient cars reduce Federal gas tax
 

I bought my Prius mainly because I don't have to give these crooks $200 in gasoline taxes.

Funny how no one can find any savings anywhere. We can't afford the programs and entitlements we already have on the books yet they want more and more.

I'd go for a fuel tax increase only if we shut off 100% of the other than road repair and maintenance. Not one cent for a brand new road or bridge until every existing road, bridge and over pass is repaired.

I see this garbage around me all the time and all the money wasted on no need projects other than a photo OP. You can't stand their and get press for fixing a falling down bridge over a ground breaking for a new road construction project.

Re: Fuel efficient cars reduce Federal gas tax
 

Unfortunately the programs and entitlements (like driveable roads) are things that ensure we live in a nice society. Taxes are the price of living in a nice society...and if the choices are we pay more taxes or live in a worse society with fewer advantages...well, my view is I'd rather not take steps backwards for the sake of saving a few bucks.

The EV issue regarding gas tax is a difficult one. In the UK there is a road tax as well as a petrol tax (which is massively higher than in the US). The road tax varies by car type - smaller cars are less.

Re: Fuel efficient cars reduce Federal gas tax
 

I feel the same way as ALS. They're building a big new interchange here @ I-95 (It has been needed for many years, though), but yet DelDuh has been running budget deficits since I can imagine. We have roads that bounce you all over that aren't being touched, but there's an abundance of large projects getting done, like this interchange, widening projects, etc. How in the world can we afford new, more maintenance items, if we can't even afford to maintain what we currently have.

Re: Fuel efficient cars reduce Federal gas tax
 

It's a short-term mentality - money spent on producing something immediate is seen as better spent than on something that prevents problems ten years down the road...

Re: Fuel efficient cars reduce Federal gas tax
 

Sources of funding.

Re: Fuel efficient cars reduce Federal gas tax
 

We also need to ensure we are getting the most bang for our buck. I drive by way too many construction zones with guys making $45 an hour either holding a sign that says "SLOW" (truth in advertising, should also have ones that say "LAZY" and "WORTHLESS"), or standing around leaning on shovels or talking on cell phones. Went by a bridge project by my house last week, about 9:30 and there's literally 3 guys standing around drinking coffee, and nobody doing a lick of work.

Re: Fuel efficient cars reduce Federal gas tax
 

It wouldn't take much to change it. It's actually pretty simple:
f(weight,axles) * ( new_odometer - old_odometer ).
Cars already have to be registered and inspected.

No need with odometer-based pricing. The only technical problem would be a broken or missing odometer, but I wouldn't anticipate that as being a common or significant problem.

Fraud could be another issue, but you can cover some of that with fines, confiscation and suspension.

Re: Fuel efficient cars reduce Federal gas tax
 

In some states, cars do not have to be inspected.

The main advantage of that plan is that it would reduce unemployment. Numerous bureaucrats would have to be hired to do the inspections, collect the tax, and try to police the widespread fraud.

A much simpler, although imperfect, solution, at least until electric cars become more common: Excuse them from road tax in exchange for eliminating the "subsidies for the rich" associated with buying them. Energy from public charging stations could be taxed similar to the way fuel is taxed.

Re: Fuel efficient cars reduce Federal gas tax
 

But a lot of states do. And cars are still registered. At registration you have to give the odometer reading. It's also recorded when vehicles are titled.

It's a fundamentally fairer system. Fraud is really the only issue. It's rather sad to think that we use an unfair, inferior system of funding because of *******s.

Most charging is done at home. Requiring a separate meter for PEVs is really a no go because of the practical effects in widespread use: you want visitors to a home to be able to charge on L1.

Re: Fuel efficient cars reduce Federal gas tax
 

Most road and bridge work is done by contractors. Most of the time, the work goes to the lowest responsible bidder. If there are men standing around, it costs the contractor, not the public. The guys drinking coffee do get breaks same as anyone. They may have been waiting on concrete to show up on the job. Regardless, once the contract is awarded, it's the contractor's problem keeping his men busy.

Harry

Re: Fuel efficient cars reduce Federal gas tax
 

You should hear the stories that are told about Pennsylvania Department of Transportation.
One of my friends has a buddy that is a supervisor at PennDOT and he says if he can get a three hours of work out of a crew on any given day he's doing well. One guy told me about a year ago that they are told to fill up the truck go take a drive for the day and don't come back until it's close to empty. BTW that truck goes out with a crew of four. :eek: The truck is one of those big crew cab dump trucks you see on the interstates with the plows during the winter. Yep your tax dollars at work and they say there is no way they can find any savings before this new Governor came into office.

Amazing how the new Governor has gotten rid of 1,200 un-needed state vehicles this year and the state is going to save an easy $20 million a year. You should see how much this guy is being demonized by the big Government crowd.

Re: Fuel efficient cars reduce Federal gas tax
 

One thing that should be tried is competition.. have TWO DOTs in the same State and have them compete.. if DOT A does a better job this year then they get 80% of the budget next year, DOT B gets 20% and so on every year.

You would think it would double the bureaucracy but lets give it a try.

Re: Fuel efficient cars reduce Federal gas tax
 

The Feds et al wanted people to buy more efficient cars and use less fuel.
Well people did (to some degree) and now they are complaining about the decrease in tax revenue...

A Per-Mile-Tax would be really easy to implement here in NC.
When we do the yearly inspection, they plug into the OBD port and it sends whatever information it gets straight to Raleigh which would include the odometer.

We no longer use the inspection stickers, the inspection station gives you a print out saying that it was inspected and that it passed inspection.
Then when you renew your tags, the "system" already knows whether or not you have passed inspection.

I wouldn't have a problem with NC repealing the state gas tax and replacing it with a Per-Mile-Tax, but the problem is, we would just end up with both.
I'm sure it would be something like:
Miles x Weight x some-fancy-multiplier = tax you owe.

IMO, replacing fuel taxes with a Per-Mile-Tax would be much more fair than what we have now.
You only pay for the damage you are doing to the public roads and nothing more.
I'm sure that if it was implemented on a Federal level there would be some sort of emissions multiplier as well.

Re: Fuel efficient cars reduce Federal gas tax
 

Like every state, ours is struggling with this problem. Revenues are declining as the maintenance backlog starts to grow. Too bad we can't just index the gas tax to CAFE, but of course politicians refuse to do the sensible thing because how the media will spin it.

Gas taxes are not that big a chunk of today's gas prices. Remember we were briefly paying $1.50/gal 3 1/2 years ago? Total taxes were quite a bit less than that. An increase wouldn't hit us that hard and wouldn't all be eaten by consumers, with some of it passed on to suppliers.

But it seems to be politically off-limits. So in our state there's a lot of talk about a weight-mile tax. Especially since we already have a weight-mile tax for heavy trucks (much to the chagrin of the truckers, who HATE having to stop, weigh in and do a bunch of paperwork every time they enter and leave the state).

I guess I could get behind such a tax, but I do worry about widespread odometer fraud by tax dodgers. Then again, it may be more difficult to disconnect and/or roll back an odo on newer cars, so maybe it wouldn't be a huge problem.

Another proposal is a flat per-mile tax. I would oppose this vehemently. No way should a Civic owner pay the same rate per mile as a gas-guzzling Hummer owner.

Still, with a weight-mile tax you pay the same regardless of how you drive. It's not a huge factor in what we pay, but at least a fuel tax directly rewards sensible driving and penalizes aggressive consumption.

You go first!

Re: Fuel efficient cars reduce Federal gas tax
 

watch what happens when they raise taxes again (and again) they will say they are broke within a month of receiving the money. and then they will get more.

And as sure as I sit here today, the roads will see zero improvement, they never have.

most roads in the western u.s are made of tar, they arent even paved. trillions and trillions later, no improvement whatsoever.

also, I think the total gas tax the consumer pays is much closer to a buck a gallon.

Re: Fuel efficient cars reduce Federal gas tax
 

Here in Pa the fed and state fuel taxes are around 51 cents per gallon.

WriConsult, you're onto something. What would work here in Pa. would be to get rid of the emissions testing and since we already have a yearly safety check if the CEL light is lit make them fix it.

It is well known that the emission testing is pretty much useless since OBDII came into effect except as a revenue generator for the state.

Then raise the yearly registration fee by anywhere between $10 and $100 based on weight and EPA fuel economy ratings to cover the revenue lost from the elimination of the emission testing scam. Works out the same, the lighter and more efficient the vehicle the less you pay.

Re: Fuel efficient cars reduce Federal gas tax
 

Huh ? Here in Illinois I don't think it generates any revenue for the state. Motorists pay nothing (directly) for the emissions test. But it does help to weed out the yahoos who simply MUST modify their vehicles for more power (emissions).

Re: Fuel efficient cars reduce Federal gas tax
 

Well all they do here is check the gas cap with a pressure test and plug into the OBDii port and make sure there are no codes. $35 a pop. It is a real racket. I understand why the test was needed when they started it back in the late seventies with a tail pipe test. Now it is getting ridiculous since less than two percent of the vehicles in the state fail each year. And the number of vehicle that do fail has been dropping each year that passes. If someone wants to see if I have any codes all they have to do is push the check codes button on my Scan Gauge. :p

Re: Fuel efficient cars reduce Federal gas tax
 

There are a lot of other hidden taxes in the cost of a gallon too. My last car was a diesel, and I used to fill up at a card lock station, where they would send a very itemized bill once a month. After a little work with my calculator, I was more than shocked when I figured out the total tax, with the federal tax, state tax, county tax, city tax, and various environmental things like the leaky tank fee amounted to 35%! A full third of the cost of a gallon was taxes. So much for the 18 cents they like to bandy about.

Re: Fuel efficient cars reduce Federal gas tax
 

New cars in NC are not inspected annually.

In most states, inspections cost money. Mostly a waste to inspect OBD2 cars annually.

Fed gas tax is $.18. That is a fact.

Much of the country lives in states that add about $.30 - including NC which pays a bit more.

Of course we should increase the gas tax. Funny how a per mile tax would somehow be more palatable. I for one am figuring how I would fix my odometer. I suppose the best approach is to get an old Insight which might have a mechanical odometer. Easy enough to disconnect - while I suppose it's tampering would be quite illegal, there are far too many people who would be willing to do it.

I personally think the EVs should get the tax break and make everyone else pay more. The secondary benefits are signigicant.

Re: Fuel efficient cars reduce Federal gas tax
 

I forgot about this pic.
I figure its pertinent to the topic.

Re: Fuel efficient cars reduce Federal gas tax
 

I vote for much higher registration fees that cover roads, not a rise in gasoline taxes. That will future-proof the situation. The cost would be a flat fee for any vehicle. It could be graded by weight, so that 18 wheelers are more expensive than registering a Miata.

Then I could say, if you want the privilege of driving you should pay for the roads. Then you can drive as much as you want on those smooth roads.

Re: Fuel efficient cars reduce Federal gas tax
 

I favor setting a gas tax as a percentage instead of a fixed amount. Set the percentage at the number that is the same as the original amount. This would encourage Americans to use a lot less fuel, reducing our dependence of foreign oil.

Re: Fuel efficient cars reduce Federal gas tax
 

Good luck with tax increases... we may end up with subsidized fuel like they do in some third world countries, after all driving is a right.

I'm willing to subsidize the cost of electricity for all BEVs with the increased fuel taxes.

Re: Fuel efficient cars reduce Federal gas tax
 

In the 2008 election control of the NC legislature changed from Democrat to Republican.

In 2009 the NC legislature recognized a major budgetary short-fall for NC resulting from the economic down turn.

So ... after reducing public school (including state colleges and universities) teacher head count, the legislature moved a substantial portion of the NC Highway Trust Fund ... to the General Fund budget.

So, now according to the last I heard the NC Highway Trust Fund is significantly UNDER FUNDED.

So ... we collect highway taxes, try to spend the funds wisely ... and they STILL DISAPPEAR!

But ... one thing the NC legislature does apparently aggressively support from a highway point of view is ... QUALITY ... expressways out of Raliegh (the state capital) to the beach and mountain recreation areas.

Just saying what I have observed ...

Re: Fuel efficient cars reduce Federal gas tax
 

Increasing registration fees has some drawbacks. For instance, my co-worker has a long commute including some minimally maintained dirt roads. So he drives 4wds. He recognizes that it is inefficient, but the registration and insurance costs make it prohibitive to also have an efficient fair weather car.

A gas tax drives all the right behaviors -- vehicle choice, driving style, length of commute, and carpooling.

Re: Fuel efficient cars reduce Federal gas tax
 

I agree. We just need those with some political b***s to step up and push it through.

I think a registration fee, even if it is based on weight, is almost as unfair as a flat per-mile tax. It rewards those who drive a lot, at the expense of those who drive very little. If you log lots of miles per day, helping clog up the roads, you pay no more than the person who chooses to take public transit, walk, bike or carpool most of the time, but still maintains a car for the occasional time they really need it.

It's not owning a car that jams and wears out the roads, consumes resources, pollutes the planet and kills people. It's driving that does.

Re: Fuel efficient cars reduce Federal gas tax
 

I agree, too. It also has most of the advantages of a mileage tax, and is far less costly to administer and enforce. Its drawback of not catching electric cars is not very significant, so far.

Re: Fuel efficient cars reduce Federal gas tax
 

The present system of taxing fuel consumed is ideal, as it punishes those who use too much fuel, and rewards those of us who use as little as possible. Why would anyone want to change that system? Yes, we need more revenue for road and bridge work, so just raise the tax rate, dedicate it for the intended purpose, road work, and the problem is solved.

Harry

Re: Fuel efficient cars reduce Federal gas tax
 

The problem with that idea, is that it wouldn't be dedicated or stay dedicated for long.
Very soon there will be some "desperate need" or "emergency" or "crisis" and the "dedicated" revenue will be siphoned away, again...
Then guess what will be proposed?
Yep, you guessed it.
The tax rate will be raised again.
Lather, Rinse, Repeat...

Re: Fuel efficient cars reduce Federal gas tax
 

I think you may be looking at this problem through too narrow of a lens. How many states have dipped into their gas tax funds for non-transportation purposes? Maybe NC has, but I'm not aware that it's been a widespread problem. Hasn't happened around here that I'm aware of -- even with severe budget crises in both WA and OR -- nor am I aware that it has happened with the federal gax tax.

Re: Fuel efficient cars reduce Federal gas tax
 

That's a good question. I'll bet my state has.

Re: Fuel efficient cars reduce Federal gas tax
 

We have the Federal Highway Trust Fund.. its money safely kept in a lock box :)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highway_Trust_Fund