Re: Spark Vs Barge - The New Micro-Chevy is Compared to Yesterday's Land Barge
 

everyone should own one of these, I think mine will go to Craigslist :)

Re: Spark Vs Barge - The New Micro-Chevy is Compared to Yesterday's Land Barge
 

My old Bonneville wagon was a beast in the snow. Never got stuck. Also, 70's vehicles with mild technology upgrades get pretty decent economy. My old 74 Chevy pickup used to get upper 20's on the highway. I got tired of adjusting the points so I ripped out the distributor and upgraded it to an electronic distributor from a 75 Chevy van. I also put AC Delco platinum plugs in it. Probably was my best value in a vehicle ever. I bought it, drove it for several years, then sold it for more money than I paid for it.

Re: Spark Vs Barge - The New Micro-Chevy is Compared to Yesterday's Land Barge
 

Yup, the old cars could beat even those unadjusted EPA numbers. And the ability to set your own mixture and idle speed, along with ignition timing before computerization, you could set the car for better economy or more power.
The old '74 Chevy pickup probably didn't weigh much more than today's heavier midsize crossovers. It was huge, but was little more than a sheet metal box over a steel frame. The 1975 EPA numbers for a Chevy pickup:
250 I6 1bbl - 14/19
350 V8 2bbl - 12/17
350 V8 4bbl - 13/18
454 V8 4bbl - 10/14

The 350 with Q-Jet did better on the EPA tests. A common belief that four barrel carburetors meant the car was a guzzler was disproved in most EPA results. The smaller throat of the primaries meant higher air velocity and better mixture, and therefore better throttle response and better fuel economy at light throttle. Those who decided to mash the pedal to open the secondaries were treated to the roar of the air intake, getting thrown back in the seat, and watching the fuel gage and speedometer moving equal distances in opposite directions.

Re: Spark Vs Barge - The New Micro-Chevy is Compared to Yesterday's Land Barge
 

Yeah, my 74 Chevy had a 350, 4bbl QuadraJet, and a TH350 3 speed automatic with lockup. My brother in law used to joke that I got great mileage, because I was only driving 1/2 a truck (had severe cancerous rust), but it had an air conditioner that was so cold, you could keep ice cream in there. I generally drove it like an old lady, but you didn't need to press the pedal hard because it readily moved at the slightest touch of the pedal.

Re: Spark Vs Barge - The New Micro-Chevy is Compared to Yesterday's Land Barge
 

Your '74 pickup had my '75 Vega easily beat. The old Vega had the aluminum grenade with self-changing oil feature, and a TH250 that hated to shift to direct drive (likely a gummed up governor). I'd get 13 around town and maybe 18 on the highway. A long 10 second coast down was needed to get it to 3rd gear, and then it'd want to kick down when climbing any kind of hill because the engine was good for about 50hp by today's measure. It was that car that taught me DWL because any pedal pressure on the hills would doom you to second gear and then you had the challenge of getting it back to 3rd. And I might have had you beaten on rust. The rust was concentrated around the front and rear windows, so that a right turn during a rain storm would drop about half a cup of water onto your lap. Glad the car wasn't a stick because I'd be palming the wheel to turn while holding a plastic cup in my other hand, trying to catch the stream of water as it started to pour into the car. They sure don't build 'em like they used to! I miss sitting in chemistry class, waiting for my legs to dry off.

Re: Spark Vs Barge - The New Micro-Chevy is Compared to Yesterday's Land Barge
 

LOL, when I boght the truck, the seller jokingly said "Don't haul any sand in it". It had a few golf ball sized rust holes in the bottom of the bed. There were also rust holes in the fenders large enough that I could almost stick my arm through them. Oh, and it was the ugliest color on earth. Two tone paint, white (which was faded to light grey) and "moss green" which faded to "Baby poo green" Ugly as sin, but arguably the most reliable vehicle I've ever owned.

Re: Spark Vs Barge - The New Micro-Chevy is Compared to Yesterday's Land Barge
 

Oh the memories! :rolleyes: I had a 1974 Chevy Vega GT hatchback (AT) when I was a poor college kid and I'd like to confirm MaxxMPG's observations. The aluminum block leaked oil ( around the head gasket and oil pan) and burned oil too. On the plus side it was pretty easy for a DIYer to change the oil, oil filter, air filter, the battery, and the spark plugs. On the downside, it was overweight and underpowered which was only made worst by its mismatched automatic transmission. On the upside, it was easy to reset the engine timing with a timing gun. On the downside again, the acceleration on a flat road AND hill climbing ability was both subpar. Despite no auto accidents, washing and waxing frequently and having paid for a dealer's rustproofing undercoating - the Vega started rusting from the inside out from the side panels and along weld points along the roof by the 6th year. The micro pits of rusting were impossible to stop with sanding or chemicals so attempts to use fiberglass patches did not work. The only good thing about the GT was that it had an RPM gauge which along with over inflated tires could help me get about 24 mpg on the superhighway (if I kept my speed under 60mph) and about 18 mpg in the city (doing rabbit timing and DWB). Because I put too much stuff in the rear - the unibody later became slightly warped and it was impossible to get perfect alignment. My only modifications were the installation of a CB radio and replacing the AM radio(with one speaker on the dash board) with stereo tape cassette player (with two speaker in the rear). It was really an embarassing car to own ... one of our local service stations/garages even refused to repair her because he felt she should have sent to the scrape yard years ago... which was sort of funny - because after that I started going to the scrape yards for parts (since there were so many Chevy Vegas there) to repair it... :p

Re: Spark Vs Barge - The New Micro-Chevy is Compared to Yesterday's Land Barge
 

As I understand it the SparK is basically an EU Aveo:

48.7 mpg(Imp) urban ==> predicted US 40 mpg
60 mpg(Imp) combined ==> predicted US 49 mpg
68.9 mpg(Imp) extra urban ==> predicted US 55 mpg
NEDC cycle of course.

0-60 13.4 seconds
108 mph top speed

based price £10,295 ... predicted export list USD $12.6K

http://www.autocar.co.uk/SpecsPrices...-1.2-LS/63433/
http://www.autocar.co.uk/CarReviews/...1.2-LS/257171/

Chevy Spark prices start at $12,995 according to
http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dl...TAIL/120409902

It will be interesting to see how EPA sticker turns out.

Re: Spark Vs Barge - The New Micro-Chevy is Compared to Yesterday's Land Barge
 

The Aveo in the autocar link is sold (and built) in the US as the Sonic. The Spark is quite a bit smaller than the Sonic and is in fact only a few inches longer than the Fiat 500.

GM is suggesting (but not stating) that the highway EPA will be 40-something, but I'm not sure it will earn a 40 with an automatic. Being marketed as a city car and also likely to make the shopping list of the 20-30 year olds (with its low MSRP and tech toys), I can't see a large share of Sparks hitting the streets with the manual trans. Most young drivers don't know how to drive stick and apparently have little interest in doing so, and city traffic makes the three-pedal-variety tiresome after a few hundred hours of gridlock each year.

Whether the Spark succeeds or fails in the market will depend largely on actual transaction prices - meaning MSRP less wheeling&dealing less incentives or low interest financing. A nicely optioned Spark 1LT will have a sticker dangerously close to the Kia Rio LX and Hyundai Accent GS/GLS, which both have more interior space, EPA ratings of 30/40 for stick *and* automatic, and will probably have better residual value over time.

Re: Spark Vs Barge - The New Micro-Chevy is Compared to Yesterday's Land Barge
 

Max, thanks for the correction.