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I have been using NICE-On Coasting for my 60 mile round trip to work across this up & down back state hwy and have been maintaining a tank trip mpg between 48.8 & 49.2. Although from my first fill-up, I do believe that is about 5mpg higher than the calculated mpg. :(

So I got up the nerve yesterday to try FAS as my ride is perfect for it since the downhill stretches I can get up to 1-2 miles of coasting using NICE. Tried on every long downhill I felt comfortable with and was surprised how easy it was and by the time I got back home last night my tank mpg was already up to 50.3 and this is on a tank already half empty so it had to be way more than that to up the average from the first half a tank.

I did come up with a couple of questions though:
1.) Is it normal for the upshift light to come on while using FAS?
2.) On this terrain almost all startups will be 40+mph, is bumping it or turning the ignition on better?

On a side note, I do have one downhill run that starts with a sharp curve at the top.... not a good place to start a FAS if you aren't expecting the sudden loss of power. :eek:

I'm glad you gave that a shot!!


Yes -- it is normal. This happens in the Insight as well.
Bumpstart it anytime you are moving faster than about 10mph


You'll get used to the loss of power steering after a while. :) At least it comes back with the electric PS -- my Elantra has hydraulics and doesn't come back at all. Very heavy steering for sharper turns! :p

I'm glad you gave that a shot!!


Yes -- it is normal. This happens in the Insight as well.
Bumpstart it anytime you are moving faster than about 10mph


You'll get used to the loss of power steering after a while. :) At least it comes back with the electric PS -- my Elantra has hydraulics and doesn't come back at all. Very heavy steering for sharper turns! :p

Thanks for the quick reply and info. I feel a little better about that light now. The steering wasn't really a problem just caught me off guard on that one steep curve. Reminded me of my first 81 Honda Prelude with a rack. I loved that car and the way it steered.

Only thing I didn't like was that I really can't use my MP3 player while doing this as it shuts off and then starts the same song from the beginning when turning the electronics back on. :ccry: I might have to plug my portable player into the auxiliary port as it will play off its on battery and will not reset, then I will just lose the sound for a second or two. But, all in all, I would put up with that any day for an increase in mpg. ;)

Thanks for the quick reply and info. I feel a little better about that light now. The steering wasn't really a problem just caught me off guard on that one steep curve. Reminded me of my first 81 Honda Prelude with a rack. I loved that car and the way it steered.

Only thing I didn't like was that I really can't use my MP3 player while doing this as it shuts off and then starts the same song from the beginning when turning the electronics back on. :ccry: I might have to plug my portable player into the auxiliary port as it will play off its on battery and will not reset, then I will just lose the sound for a second or two. But, all in all, I would put up with that any day for an increase in mpg. ;)

Congrats on taking it to the next level with the fas. Good to see more great results in gas savings!

I must say, I love how my car steers when the power steering cuts out. It feels a lot more realistic, like I'm actually in control of the car. And talk about feed back from the road, man... I've learned that the smoothest route is always the best when in a fas due to the strong feedback through the wheels...espeically when in a downhill-turn. When ever I bump the car back on and the power steering engages I suddenly feel like I've warped into a video game or something because it's so easy to steer. Feels almost fake really.

Anyways, as for the music :Banane57:, I run my iPod through an aux in on my aftermarket in-dash cd player. When I do a fas, cut the engine and turn it back to "run position", the music never stops playing it just runs off the battery until I bump the car back on. So the way my aux in is wired it will run either in the acessory position or run. Not sure about how the HCH aux in is wired though.

Try starting the decent with nice-off and after the bend go to f.a.s.
brian

If you're moving at any appreciable speed, non-power steering
should still be relatively easy. And more realistic, as already
pointed out. It's cranking the wheel over when at or near a
standstill that's hard, and its serious downside is that it
encourages drivers to sit there and scrub the wheels around on
pavement before actually moving. Not nice to tires.
.
Consider implementing a FAS switch to kill your injectors
without having to reboot everything else...
.
_H*

Anyways, as for the music, I run my iPod through an aux in on my aftermarket in-dash cd player. When I do a fas, cut the engine and turn it back to "run position", the music never stops playing it just runs off the battery until I bump the car back on. So the way my aux in is wired it will run either in the acessory position or run. Not sure about how the HCH aux in is wired though.

When I first started doing FAS I was starting the engine back up with the key instead of bumping it. When doing that it cuts all the electronics for a second, resetting my mp3 player. Now that I am bump starting it I no longer have that problem.


Consider implementing a FAS switch to kill your injectors without having to reboot everything else...
_H*

Being mechanically un-inclined I have no idea how that would be done or what effect it would have on my extended Honda warranty unless it was easily removable. Any thoughts?

Truthfully, I think you HCH 1 must be out of tune to get those mpg numbers - it should do way better! You car should be way better than mine, as when I do straight hwy driving I maybe get 46.5 mpg, but if I P & G - no FAS on hwy, I can get a 53 to 57 mpg drive.

Maybe your a beginner hypermiler here!?

99HXCivic, the HCH-I with 5spd is a bit different than your car. The sensitivity of the gas pedal would absolutely shock you. Pushing much can knock it out of lean burn pretty easily, and it is quite sensitive to temperature.

Keeping working at it, HemiSync!

What pressure are you running your tires at?

Truthfully, I think you HCH 1 must be out of tune to get those mpg numbers - it should do way better! You car should be way better than mine, as when I do straight hwy driving I maybe get 46.5 mpg, but if I P & G - no FAS on hwy, I can get a 53 to 57 mpg drive.

Maybe your a beginner hypermiler here!?

I thought the fact that I was a beginner was pretty obvious. I just got the car 2 weeks ago and before I knew anything about hypermiling I used 6 gallons of gas which was put in by the dealer. so god only knows what crap that was, and that is what my beginning mileage was based on. The car was just Honda certified and had what should have been a complete check over although that remains to be seen as well. So it could very well be out of tune but it shows no sign of it by the way it drives. My daily commute is all back 2 lane roads with max speed of 50 mph except when coasting downhill and there are lots and lots of hills and curves along the way. I always said that if they straightened out the road and leveled the hills it would only be a 20 mile drive instead of 25. I have no straight hwy driving, have no modifications to my vehicle yet, and am definitely still learning what this vehicle can do, so of course my mileage is not up to your hypermiling expertise.

Looking at the mileage logs I only see two Civic HX and neither is a 99 so I guess you don't log your mileage here, but those two have an average of 47.792 mpg over 4200 miles, so I think it is great that you have even better numbers than they do. I do see that with all the HCH-I that are listed with established numbers they have an average of 53.996 mpg which is definitely better than my first 6 gallons, but gives me something to strive for.

Currently have gone 540 miles on this tank of gas and look to have a little less than a 1/4 tank of gas left, I hope. So hopefully I have had some kind of improvement just since joining this forum. But even at my measly 42.7 mpg that I started with is almost twice what I was getting with my other vehicle and for the first time in over 2 years I have gone almost 2 weeks without filling up, so I am happily learning how to drive all over again. With the help of people like you I should be able to easily surpass all my expectations.

Thanks for all your kind comments.


What pressure are you running your tires at?

Been running with 44 Front & 42 rear.

HemiSync -- you are doing a fine job so far -- just keep honing your technique. :)

Get your pressures up to max sidewall all the way around -- that means the backs need to come up 2# to match the front (assuming max sidewall is 44# -- if 51# even better!!). I can't legally recommend higher it but I can tell you that with tires in good shape burst pressure is something greater than 200psi. Personally, I run my tires on the Elantra at 60psi, and the Insight is at 65psi. The first time I hit 70mpg in Laurie's car it was over an unfamiliar route with snow tires -- at 60psi. There is a large change between 44 and 60 when you compare rolling distance. If the car rolls easier you won't need as much fuel to keep it going.

Just something to consider. ;)

HemiSync -- you are doing a fine job so far -- just keep honing your technique. :)

Get your pressures up to max sidewall all the way around -- that means the backs need to come up 2# to match the front (assuming max sidewall is 44# -- if 51# even better!!). I can't legally recommend higher it but I can tell you that with tires in good shape burst pressure is something greater than 200psi. Personally, I run my tires on the Elantra at 60psi, and the Insight is at 65psi. The first time I hit 70mpg in Laurie's car it was over an unfamiliar route with snow tires -- at 60psi. There is a large change between 44 and 60 when you compare rolling distance. If the car rolls easier you won't need as much fuel to keep it going.

Just something to consider. ;)

The car came with brand new Bridgestone B381s, max sidewall is 44psi, so bursting shouldn't be a problem. I will try upping them a a few pounds at a time to see how the ride goes.

I definitely need to get a scangauge, if nothing else, so I can put it in a more visible location. As you know the HCH-I has the gauges way to low to safely watch them and the road at the same time. Lucky for me I my commute is at 1pm & 10pm so there usually isn't much traffic to worry about but I almost creamed a bunch of does that were standing in the middle of the road last night because I was trying to achieve a better lean burn. :eek: Will have to wait a couple weeks at least before I can go for the SG. Too much outgo and to little income right now. lol I really like the idea of having some extra trip meters. The two on the car I am using for LTMPG & fill-up. But having at least one more for daily trips would be great. I know it does a lot more than that but will save that learning for when I get one.

As always thanks for all the advice!

You are very welcome, HemiSync!

I know what you mean about the gauges being kind of low. I'm used to having the SG mounted on the dash right above my steering wheel in the Elantra so it is really easy to glance at without moving my eyes far from the road. The Insight gauge cluster is very similar to what you see in your car, but placed higher so it is a little easier to glance at.

Even though the SG won't be able to show the correct instantaneous and average mpg numbers (I do encourage you to program an xgauge for the average -- very handy to see both at once!), you can tell when you are in lean burn (after calibration) because the car will show about 30% over what the SG will show. When you come out of lean burn they should agree -- or at least the instantaneous numbers will agree.

I know that Ken and Brian like to monitor TPS (Throttle Position Sensor) data on the SG while driving but the pedal is so sensitive that you can find gradations finer than what the SG can show. I find it helpful in the HCH to anchor the side of my foot against the footwell to help add enough resistance that I can exact finer control of the pedal from my ankle. If you aren't already doing that, give it a try. You should be able to lock into a very steady pedal position that way. A steady pedal position will help you avoid having to look down so often -- and hopefully stay away from more deer! :eek:

I'm excited for you! You've got one heck of a car and once you start exploring the depth of its capabilities you will be absolutely blown away by what you can achieve. :D

I know that Ken and Brian like to monitor TPS (Throttle Position Sensor) data on the SG while driving but the pedal is so sensitive that you can find gradations finer than what the SG can show. I find it helpful in the HCH to anchor the side of my foot against the footwell to help add enough resistance that I can exact finer control of the pedal from my ankle. If you aren't already doing that, give it a try. You should be able to lock into a very steady pedal position that way. A steady pedal position will help you avoid having to look down so often -- and hopefully stay away from more deer! :eek:

Sensitive isn't the word for it. What makes it even more difficult is that 90% of my commute is on a grade or curve making it harder to lock into the lean burn. The 2 or 3 miles that are flat straightway aren't all together either. lol

Something I noticed is that even trying to stay out of assist, the steep inclines I go up really take a toll on the battery level. Because I am FASing down the other side, there isn't any time for a regen. I did finally see a forced regen the other night but it didn't happen untill the battery was around 2 ticks. Now if I forget the FASing and let it regen it does so just as quickly as it lost it going uphill. Is there a point where you go to the dealer and say the batteries are losing there charge too quickly going uphill?

I do have a new O2 sensor that is going in Tuesday morning, had that check engine light last week, should I mention it then or see if that makes any kind of difference?

Well, actually, I don't know how to hypermile a hybrid - might be complicated. I'm staying away from hybrid until they become plug in and with Lithium Ion batteries, so I'm gonna wait till 2010 or 2011 for one, unless I like the 09 FIT enough.

My best non hypermiled tank 44 mpg. I'm currently on my first Dashdyno calibrated hypermiled week. Did a hwy 53.6 and 57 mpg drive. Plus a 95% city 52 mpg drive. Hoping for my first 50+ mpg tank tomorrow!

I'll post my log soon. Not many HX drivers here that are very active!

HemiSync, the O2 sensor could be causing some issues with lean burn for you. The sensor is a special one that can handle the extra lean mixture that will bring on the ultra high numbers for you. Wait until that gets replaced first.

Also, Laurie's car was assist happy a while back. That's when I took my first extended drive in it. Turns out the car wasn't calibrating the charge level correctly -- since you didn't get a forced charge until only 2 bars were left, I'm wondering if you are having the same issue? Force charge should occur at 1/4 charge left -- which would be 5 bars. It shouldn't let you use assist down at that level and should initiate a forced charge you can't cancel until it is completely full.

If the O2 sensor doesn't do it for you, you many want to force a recal event by disconnecting the 12V battery for about 30s. When you reattach and turn the key to the on position it will show ZERO bars of battery charge. Take it out on the highway for a bit and you'll see a forced charge all the way to the top. This will calibrate the computer's understanding of how to measure battery charge level and may help. After I did that in Laurie's car it behaved as it should.

Let us know how it goes!

HemiSync, the O2 sensor could be causing some issues with lean burn for you. The sensor is a special one that can handle the extra lean mixture that will bring on the ultra high numbers for you. Wait until that gets replaced first.

Also, Laurie's car was assist happy a while back. That's when I took my first extended drive in it. Turns out the car wasn't calibrating the charge level correctly -- since you didn't get a forced charge until only 2 bars were left, I'm wondering if you are having the same issue? Force charge should occur at 1/4 charge left -- which would be 5 bars. It shouldn't let you use assist down at that level and should initiate a forced charge you can't cancel until it is completely full.

If the O2 sensor doesn't do it for you, you many want to force a recal event by disconnecting the 12V battery for about 30s. When you reattach and turn the key to the on position it will show ZERO bars of battery charge. Take it out on the highway for a bit and you'll see a forced charge all the way to the top. This will calibrate the computer's understanding of how to measure battery charge level and may help. After I did that in Laurie's car it behaved as it should.

Let us know how it goes!

Okay will do that but now I am not even sure about the forced regen, what I see when it goes down to 2 or 3 bars is that about 3 bars of regen will come on and stay on until it is back up about halfway and will then go out but I still think I can force assist to come on even while that is happening. I will check that out today on the way to work but pretty sure it does not force a charge all the way to the top and I can interrupt it while it is doing it.

Tomorrow is my appointment for the O2 senor replacement and if after that and the battery disconnect, the regen is still acting funny I will take it back to them and explain what has been happening. I assume that the battery disconnect would only require the positive lead being removed? Will that reset my trip odometers and radio security code as well?

When they replace the O2 they should probably be resetting the IMA / ECU as well, so I'd expect everything should be cleared up when you get it back.

It will not reset trip odometers as the guage cluster has onboard solid state storage - mainly for the primary odometer, it would be a shame to lose the car's mileage every time you pulled the battery. ;)

If you are running the battery low that frequently, you may need to be a bit less aggressive on the pedal :)

When they replace the O2 they should probably be resetting the IMA / ECU as well, so I'd expect everything should be cleared up when you get it back.

It will not reset trip odometers as the guage cluster has onboard solid state storage - mainly for the primary odometer, it would be a shame to lose the car's mileage every time you pulled the battery. ;)

If you are running the battery low that frequently, you may need to be a bit less aggressive on the pedal :)

Actually the IMA was at the same level when they gave it back to me, so I am assuming they didn't reset anything. The problem was not that I was being aggressive but that there was no power on the steep hills around here and was forced to keep down shifting and applying more power to get to the top of them depleting the IMA in the process. The service adviser at Honda said the O2 sensor may have been causing this issue and asked me to check it out now that it is replaced and see how she performs. Got out of there a little while ago and had to go by work for a little bit but now that I am finished am going to reset the battery and go for a ride, on what is turning out to be a beautiful 56° F sunny day here in PA, and see if she performs any better.

Good luck and keep us posted!