Archives

Hi All:

___Not worth the news as it is yet another “Blind cannot hear a Prius” story but a newer take nonetheless.

Cars that are quiet while in electric mode may provide no warning to pedestrians. (http://www.latimes.com/classified/automotive/highway1/la-fi-garage29mar29,0,5690461.story)

http://www.latimes.com/media/photo/2008-03/37274072.jpgMartin Zimmerman – LA Times - March 29, 2008

Phot: Morry Angell - GuideDogs.com. While under blindfold Guide Dog instructor Jeff Grey and Blaze, a Guide Dog in-training, practice traffic routes in San Rafael, CA, with a hybrid vehicle. The hybrid is one of two Prius vehicles that were recently purchased for the training departments at Guide Dogs for the Blind at both campuses.

Same old song and dance ... -- Ed.

Are hybrid cars too quiet for their own good?

Jana Littrell certainly thinks so. Littrell, who is blind, was walking through a bank parking lot in the East Bay town of Albany a year ago when her foot was run over by a Toyota Prius backing out of a parking space. She wasn't injured and the driver apologized effusively, she recalled. But the experience shook her up.

"It has definitely put me more on my guard," said Littrell, who teaches Braille to newly blind adults. "But I don't know how much good that's going to do me if I can't hear the car coming."

Concerns are growing that quiet-running hybrids such as the Prius pose a hazard to pedestrians, especially the 1.3 million Americans who are legally blind. The problem occurs when the cars are running at very low speeds on electric power, making about as much noise as a golf cart… http://www.latimes.com/classified/automotive/highway1/la-fi-garage29mar29,0,5690461.story

___Good Luck

___Wayne

Spontaneous idea: put a deer whistle on hybrids - dogs hear them too? The blind could have something that allows them to "hear" them.

If we had a large blind community I think we could learn more.

My gut feeling is this is not an issue when cars are going over 40mph.

My grandmom lived on a small two lane road....it seemed the wind and/or road noise anounced the vehicles at least a quarter mile in advance.

A deer whistle wouldn't get enough wind to make a noise at the low speeds where the car may be inaudible to the blind. But when the car is moving fast enough to activate the whistle, it would be making enough tire noise to make its presence known.

It isn't just hybrids that can be quiet when in motion. Bicycles and EV's are also quiet movers, but the blind in Europe have been managing to cope with quiet hordes of bicyclists for decades. As EV's become more common on the roads, people will just have to retune their ears to expect a quieter sound coming from a moving vehicle. To me, lower traffic noise is one of the positive features of the EV and as they displace ICE cars, hopefully the loud exhaust noise of the musclecar, ricer, or motorcycle will come to be considered passe' in a performance vehicle.

But if they do end up requiring a legal minimum noise level for EV's when in motion, then you could have some fun with it. Install a small speaker and output the sound of your choice when the vehicle is moving. So your EV could sound like a Star Wars landspeeder or X-wing, the Batmobile, a steam locomotive, or even a galloping horse. Have the generated sound's rate track your throttle setting for added realism.

I've heard of proposals to make hybrids beep when on EV power, which is IMHO the stupidest thing. I work in a factory where every thing that moves beeps, guess what? you become numb to it, and it's annoying. And sends a false signal, you would think a truck is backing up (slowly)

I propose something that gives a cue as to its location and its speed, some sort of noisemaker hooked up to the motor itself or electronically altering frequency, think of a Geiger counter.

I've heard of proposals to make hybrids beep when on EV power, which is IMHO the stupidest thing. I work in a factory where every thing that moves beeps, guess what? you become numb to it, and it's annoying. And sends a false signal, you would think a truck is backing up (slowly)

I propose something that gives a cue as to its location and its speed, some sort of noisemaker hooked up to the motor itself or electronically altering frequency, think of a Geiger counter.A century ago, people were complaining gassers scared horses.

how about blind-tuned sensors? laser like devices that can alert the blind of when a motorvehicle is near and also work in the other direction as to alert the driver a blind person is near...lasers are the future. y not start now?

This isn't a hybrid-only concern. The newer cars are very quiet, especially when near idle. Add rain or fog and you have a stealth car.

A civic/corolla coasting at 40mph on a mildly foggy night is near impossible to hear and IS impossible to locate by sound alone.

Am I the only one that suspects the interest of the blind is not pushing this issue?

Delta Flyer, if you were paranoid, you might have decided this earlier. What about golf carts? They use them with abandon in retirement communities like Sun City Center. Has anyone heard any complaints from those? They are very quiet.

What is a blind lady doing walking thorugh a parking lot, going to her car? Why do they have braile at the drive up ATMs?

I could see having a sonalert on every vehicle in reverse. That would save the lives of small children, but it should be for ALL vehicles, not just Hybrids or EVs.

If a blind person is endangered by quiet cars, then something could be done like have the blind person put a white flag out when they intend to step into the street. Then we could be forwarned and could honk.

I'm not parnoid, but cynical about how this issue may pan out.

I'm not parnoid, but cynical about how this issue may pan out.
Agreed. They should just get rid of hybrids altogether... :rolleyes:

I'm more concerned that the deaf cannot hear a Prius! ;)

I have a friend who is blind and she thinks this is all baloney. She has been blind all her life and is very matter of fact about it and doesn't really feel it is a disability. She said she can hear a hybrid coming long before it gets to the crosswalk because of other items on the car like tires rolling on asphalt. I can remember when my daughter was young I would go over to her house and she would open the door and say hi to me and then bend down to say hi to my girl. I had to ask her once how she knew when she was there without her saying anything and she just replied, I can hear her "little girl" breathing.

As for kwj's comment about the drive up ATM's with braille, she would say while she is single and does stay and work at home a lot, she does have friends that take her places and it is just as easy to use the ATM from the back seat of a car or taxi as from the driver's seat. Plus a blind person doesn't really need to throw a white flag out when they are going to cross the road, most seeing people should be able to recognize the obvious white reflective cane with red reflective stripe on it as or the seeing eye dog as an indicator that the person might be blind and proceed accordingly.

...she does have friends that take her places and it is just as easy to use the ATM from the back seat of a car or taxi as from the driver's seat.

Oh my GOD, the BACK seat! DUH! I used to think that was so stupid. But I was the one being stupid. Damn, of course... The BACK seat! Thanks for the (what should have been obvious) lesson.

I never saw it coming. Hit me like a bat to the head...

Tape a steak to your front bumper, that will get the dog's attention. Or you can blow the horn.

Seriously, is this a huge issue? what happened to just not hitting people crossing the street, especially if they're being led by seeing eye dogs.