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In case you have not seen it: CNN Video SUV Flips Over (http://www.cnn.com/video/player/player.html?url=/video/us/2006/05/24/vo.mi.dashcam.crash.wlix)

Lots of things to ponder...

Was this a police chase gone bad? There are better ways to stop a suspect.
Was this a very neglent driver/criminal that just bumped the SUV? Video makes it clear that David can kill Goliath easily. :eek:
This would make a great buckle-up public service ad - who would want to tumble like that without seat belts?
This illustrates how many SUVs crash - swerve one way, then the other (i.e. the J-turn), flips over. Can't "prove" it, but the infamous one-armed lean I loath must be a factor in J-Turn crashes.
Don't know about you, but most of the collisions I've been in have been from the rear - those kind are worrysome.
One of the many SUV criticisms is limited visibility from behind. Don't know if it would have helped at all in this case.
If you insist on speeding, are you sure you have yourself and the surrounding drivers scoped out? Real sure? This is what can happen.

Hi Chuck:

___This thing does not look like a chase but simply a police cruiser driving down the road that just happened to catch a horrific SUV accident with the camera? I sure hope everyone was buckled up in that one or there may have been some dead bodies pulled from that wreck.

___I saw a similar situation maybe 2 years ago where a guy in a Mercury Mountaineer about 15 - 20 car lengths ahead of me was coming into the toll booths at Irving Park Road and I-294 (just SE of O’Hare airport) and did a quick lane change from the Auto toll lanes toward the manual lanes. Fortunately for him, he was about 1/3 of a mile from the booths at the time but that quick steering correction placed that big pig up on 2 wheels and almost on its roof! He saved it from rolling but upon each correction to counteract the previous, it was rocking back and forth as he was hard on the brakes trying to correct for the previously induced inertial yaw and skid. He went through at least 4 control corrections on all 4’s after the initial and scariest induced 2-wheel loss of control. It appeared very similar to the video where all it took was a quick lane change and all hope was lost for all intents and purposes. Again, because it was lighter traffic at ~ 1:30 PM and he was far enough away from the toll booths for the 5 + corrections to take place, nobody was injured but I bet he doesn’t own an SUV today!

___Great find in regards to showing how easy an SUV can lose control with what appears to be a simple lane correction to avoid a very minor accident. I do truly hope all in the SUV were ok.

___Good Luck

___Wayne

It was shown here lastnight on the local news channels as a chase.

ABC has a story (http://www.abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=2003032&page=1) on the woman in that 2003 Ford Explorer that flipped from a hit-and-run.

I can honestly say the seatbelt saved her life

Hi Psy:

___Thanks, as I did not know this.

___I showed the video to my wife given she drives a Cross-over (Acura MDX) and simply reiterated how easy one of these beats can flip given an unfortunate turn of events or excessive speed with a somewhat minor sterering correction. Fortunately, the MDX has not seen but 100 miles in the past month and a half and with my wife’s new job situation, I intend to keep it that way ;)

___Good Luck

___Wayne

Hi All -

My reply is as all- I hope everyone in the vehicle was/is OK.

To me it probably wasn’t the fact that it was an SUV, or even being turned by the other vehicle, but something else. Watch it again and you will notice, as the SUV gets off the driving surface, there is a very sudden flip as if the left rear tire hit something on the side of the road, and that initiated the flip causing the accident, more than the fact that it just happened to be a SUV (always getting the bum rap).

It more or less looks like what you might see on NASCAR, or any other race, with the car going thru the infield or somewhere, just sliding along, then a tire grabs or hits something, then the flip starts.
Yes, I DO think higher center of gravity of an SUV makes it more prone to rolling, especially if the tires are under inflated and basically roll under and off the rim.

I know that what I am about to say is not exactly what happened on this particular occasion - but needs to be said.
Every year we have had a lot of teenage drivers/passengers killed in the Atlanta area, mostly in SUVs that their parents gave them, and generally it is caused by them not knowing how to safely handle a vehicle when something out of the ordinary happens. From reports the vehicle (SUV or not) first ran off the shoulder of the road. They were probably taken by surprise at the sudden running off the road since they probably were not paying attention to what they were doing – Driving. I think that most young drivers, even some seasoned ones don't know how to handle this situation. It all starts out by the driver yanking the steering wheel back to the left sending the vehicle back across the road to the other side where they over correct again and the cycle begins till they either flip, from a tire catching something, or just run into something with tragic results.

I have taken my grandsons out on rural roads, or where I know that they are resurfacing a road and there is a moderate difference between level of the old and new pavement, and intentionally ran off the road and told them if this happens 'don't panic' - just ease back on to the road (be careful because it will probably jump a little getting back on and to be aware/ready for it). I then had them to do it themselves a couple of times at a slower speed just to get the feel of what to expect.

I wish, as a grandparent, I could send them to say the 'Audi Driving Experience' (http://www.audidrivingexperience.com/programs.lasso) or some other driving school where they could learn what to do in a bad situation and not panic but how to correct the problem.

Sorry, didn’t mean to rambling on, but just got a little off track so to speak. I guess the reason is that the news and others seem to put the blame on the vehicle and not the driver. I am as old as dirt and started driving when I was 11 – guess my Dad taught me pretty good on how to drive and handle bad circumstances, also very lucky at not ever having an accident – that ’65 GTO (360 HP) I had would do over 160MPH.:)

See ABC has a story (http://www.abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=2003032&page=1) on the woman in that 2003 Ford Explorer that flipped from a hit-and-run.

Someone bumped her and police are trying to nail the guy who did it. She had her seatbelt on and did really well. A sheriff said she should have been killed in that tumble.

It's like my Dad told me when I started driving: "Sticky side goes down, shiny side goes up!"

I think I believe what the accident reconstruction guy said, that she might have been able to recover from it. I don't know, though. When you look at how much lean that thing had as it went over it's hard to say.

I saw an accident a little like this while on a trip with my family some years ago. There was a minivan in front of us who had someone change lanes into them. The driver swerved and ended up sideways off the road. The difference was that the minivan driver steered into it and kept the vehicle upright, coming to a rest safely in the median.

On another note, didn't Ford implement some kind of stability control to prevent roll overs? I know that the Volvo XC90 has it, but I can't remember what year it would have been implemented in an Explorer. I have to wonder if that might have helped keep this one shiny-side up.

Hi VietVet67’:

___As long as the taller and more tip prone vehicles are driven responsibly, I do not see a problem whatsoever but it’s the guys and gals driving 70 - 75 + down the Interstate and one slightly unorthodox situation sends them off the road. The results are clearly pretty spectacular in a very bad way if the correction is not handled just right if it can be at all. 60 mph or less is not only good for our safety, its good for our FE too ;)

___About your grandchildren and driving schools. Although this is not a behind the wheel - defensive driving school as a real world teacher of skills, the following link may be worth your time and effort as well as your loved ones. Not only may it save their lives someday, they will be conserving fuel and emitting less SMOG and GHG’s for the rest of their lives as well.

Ford Sponsored – Driving Skill’s For Life (http://www.drivingskillsforlife.com/).

___Good Luck

___Wayne

Thanks Wayne –

That is a great site, not only for the student/young driver but for the parent/teacher. I think the ‘Parents Coaching’ section is especially good. In this hectic fast paced world we live in I don’t think parents spend enough time teaching their kids the fine points of driving – just get them to the DOT get the license and turn them loose.
When I talk about the fine points I mean from driving safely at say 70 on an expressway to even how to come to a stop without sending everyone’s head into the windshield.
The part about being Patient Practice, Show them the ropes, motivate them, and have a good time, is right on the money. Most of their learning is by emulating what they see their parents do. I can remember teaching my kids how not just to drive a straight stick but start on a hill without rolling back or killing the engine – now that took patience :)

Thanks for the heads up on Site Ford Driving Skills For Life (http://www.drivingskillsforlife.com/index.php).

Yeah, I know this should be under another thread but what the heck:)

We have a few Defensive Driving schools in Ontario (the Canadian Province not the city in CA), most of them teach driving skills on water, ice and snow covered surfaces. They all use cars and not SUVs to train people, with a car you can slide sideways and never roll-over. An SUV would need metal bar extensions with wheels at the ends to prevent them from flipping.

A Formula 1 or Nascar car seems to flip easily during a race only because of the high speed. Cars in the real world are difficult to flip.

I believe additional safety and training can also create a false sense of safety. We have to face the fact that SUVs are not safe the way they are driven Today, mixing them with kids, as passengers or drivers, is risky.

A mini-van is safer because it doesn't have the high clearance and big/wide tires that SUVs have, they also don't have the horse power and "cool" factor that seems to get to the heads of SUV drivers.

Flips are rare, spins are more common when you go off the road and try to bring it back onto the road too quickly. Have patience. Let it go off straight, don't lift off the gas. Slowly and very gently bring it back onto the road with smooth and slow steering. Stay on the gas. Think slow. Think smooth. When the car transitions onto clean pavement expect tire grip to increase suddenly, this can cause increased yaw and a spin. Expect it to happen and plan to counter steer. Defensive Driving classes are a great idea.

I saw three more black SUV's flipped just like the one in the CNN video on Hwy 101, just north of San Francisco. This is who did it (http://browndailysqueal.com/archives/magneto.jpg). :D

Hi Chuck:

___I heard he had a little problem with your Insight given it’s mostly aluminum construction? Someone also said you got a pic of him giving you the finger while you drove by :D

___Good Luck

___Wayne

If only the other Charles (Xavier) had an Insight. :(

Where is the actual video? I can't make heads or tails of that
javascript muck that cnn throws in my face.
.
_H*

Hi Hobbit:

___I do not know where the source file came from or in what format it was taped in.

___To recap, it was a spectacular - SUV rollover crash and I hope you get the opportunity to see it. If you are at the library any time this week, look this thread up for the link on page one while on a library PC and watch the vid. It is spectacular and ghoulish at the same time.

___Good Luck

___Wayne

I tried it, and it played OK.

Verbal picture:

A 2003 Ford Explorer is cruising on the freeway doing about 70mph, on the passing lane.
A car for reasons unclear attempts from the right to move into that lane, bumping the Explorer
The Explorer tries to turn, but loses control, rolling over to the right
Like a coffee can, it rolls over at leat ten times before exiting the freeway on the right side
A tire and other parts come off during the rollover.

Okay, I finally managed to watch it on someone else's
machine. [I hate how these news sites try to obfuscate where
the god**** videos actually are by forcing you to download some
bells-n-whistles-spyware "player" code first...] pretty hairy.
Looks like they definitely tried to overcorrect abruptly
enough to cause the flip. Heh... if they tried that in a
prius before the steering recall, they'd rip those little
U-joints to little shreds, wouldn't they?
.
There is much to be said for slow, deliberate steering wheel
movements. Even evasive moves [avoiding bumps/detritus] can be
done with gentle movements that change course just enough to
accomplish the task, without going nuts... and of course larger
following distance allows much better anticipation of anything
that might be coming up, something that I'm spending part of this
year agonizing over how to bring this message to the common person..
.
_H*