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Why is the 2009 Corolla getting worse city and highway than this year?

Because its bigger, heavier and has more horsepower. Not significantly bigger, and the epa number is not significantly lower. And its actually not too bad when compared to the smaller yaris or other smaller cars.

2008 Toyota Corolla 1.8 5MT 2530 lb 28/37
2009 Toyota Corolla 1.8 5MT 2723 lb 26/35
2009 Toyota Corolla 2.4 5MT 2877 lb 22/30

2008 Toyota Corolla 1.8 4AT 2615 lb 26/35
2009 Toyota Corolla 1.8 4AT 2745 lb 27/35

Plus the old Corolla was run on the old EPA two cycle tests with adjusted for EPA2008. The new Corolla had to run on the 2008 five cycle tests. Will be curious to see the actual unadjusted two cycle tests that will get published later this year.

-mr. bill

Hi 98Contour:

___Great find! The 09 Corolla w/ the 1.8L is the next generation but the ICE specs and size including the vehicle itself show barely any change in HP, Torque, size and weight. Toyota did not do much to this gen Corolla but look at the tranny ratios. Lower is far better. Toyota is heading backwards wrt their fifth and final drive ratios meaning higher revs at a given speed and boy does that suck!

Year|Make|Model|Transmisison|Fifth|Final|Multiplier|Tire Size
2009|Toyota|Corolla|Manual|0.725|4.312|3.162|195/65 R15
2009|"|"|Auto|0.700|4.130|2.891|195/65 R15
||||||
2008|"|"|Manual|0.725|3.941|2.875|195/65 R15
2008|"|"|Auto|0.892|2.962|2.642|195/65 R15

___About their FE … Both the 08 and the 09 were run on the adjusted 5-cycle test regiment so it is a std. comparison but the drop for the manual appears to show Toyota playing games like Honda is. That is disappointing.

___Mr Bill, I suspect the data clerk entering the Corolla XLE’s into a spreadsheet or DBase made a typo? Why Toyota decided to play Honda’s game wrt the ratios, I have no idea :angry:

___Good Luck

___Wayne

...
___Mr Bill, I suspect the data clerk entering the Corolla XLE’s into a spreadsheet or DBase made a typo? Why Toyota decided to play Honda’s game wrt the ratios, I have no idea :angry:

...

This is where we momentarily validate the "conspiracy theorists" that Honda and Toyota are engaged in a growing "symbiotic" product collusion... :D:D:D

Nah, it is just random noise... BTW, is there such a thing as random noise in the business world? ;)

Cheers;

MSantos

This is where we momentarily validate the "conspiracy theorists" that Honda and Toyota are engaged in a growing "symbiotic" product collusion... :D:D:D
...

Their vehicles do look similar...

Having come from owning several Civics, both of which had the tighter, more performance oriented gear ratios, I completely understand, especially since I now drive the Honda with the tallest gears...

Having to downshift on the Interstate sucks. Top gear passing speed is important to consumers more than economy, so the manufacturers deliver.

Wow,
Kinda unusual to be gearing down with gasoline getting more expensive.True it shouldn't effect city mpg much-especially with a ECM controlled auto transmission, but adding over 250 RPMs(at 60 mph) certainly will hurt highway/trip FE.
Peculiar that they lower the effective final gearing on the MT and AT.Honda usually gears their MTs lower, but keeps the gearing fairly tall on ATs.
I suspect these specifications were determined 2+ years ago when it looked like gasoline would be $2/gallon.Maybe for the 2010 model year they will make the gearing taller.
Thanks,
Charlie

Before hypermiling I loved to down shift, now I dread it.

Is it possible that in commutes with hills, that you might actually get better mileage out of a transmission like the corollas, than a transmission like the insight, because you don't have to down shift.

Am I the only person who isn't too lazy to downshift?

Actually, this is yet another sign that the manufacturers need to step up and start producing 6sp MTs en masse.

I would like a 6spd -- the problem is that they never produce a 5spd with a 6th cruising gear above the normal ratios. All the ones I've ever driven have been "sport" focussed so there are just more gears with the same final drive ratio. :(

(Warning- conjecture here): For the '99 corolla the percentage steps between gears is about 40%, 31%, 32%, and 18% respectively. Note how 4th to 5th is a much smaller change. 5th gear just isn't tall enough. The engines don't need that close of ratios. I think changing the spacing should happen before adding gears. Adding gears adds driveline loss.

Another factor- the high differential ratio. This requires the use of overdrive in the trans. Overdrives are inherently inefficient. But a higher differential ratio is more forgiving of driver abuse.

So... In a mass marketed auto, since we are dealing with a demand for available extra power and we have poorly skilled drivers, the manufacturers are going to be conservative.

Keith

I would like a 6spd -- the problem is that they never produce a 5spd with a 6th cruising gear above the normal ratios. All the ones I've ever driven have been "sport" focussed so there are just more gears with the same final drive ratio. :(

Every 6 spd Honda ends up with 6th being the old 5th and the "new" gear being somewhere between 1 and 3.

Most front drive vehicles just can't be regeared-final gearing or individual gears easily(cheaply-meaning for ~$1000).A rear drive vehicle can get different ring gears for maybe $1200(installed).I doubt you could make the $$ back in fuel savings, but if you are interested in FE CO2 output,you might consider it(I am).The hyper miling techniques are usually free,and work better-in general-than mods,but mods are fun.
The Compact Tuning aftermarket offers options to regear, but in the wrong direction,and waaaaay expensive.
We are just stuck with the usual Hyper miling techniques until the manufacturers give us smaller motors,and enough gears.More flywheel effect would be nice also(maybe with a clutched flywheel with variable diameter-energy storage,and anti lugging)
Charlie

Every 6 spd Honda ends up with 6th being the old 5th and the "new" gear being somewhere between 1 and 3.

Same with Toyotas. :(

the new corolla is nice looking...
but..
I am in agreement with everyone that they kinda stepped backwards in not making the car more FE

@shifty35

Would it be possible to regear those transmissions in a way that would allow the 6th to be better for fe?

You would have to get a new 6th gear set, or a new gear set for the differential to decrease rpms.

Custom gear sets can be made from a company like MFactory... a full on custom set will run you at least $3000 for a new final drive. It would be cheaper to just have a new 5th / 6th made.

Didn't Honda use to make Ultra Low 5th gears for hwy? I think my 88 Prelude Si 4ws was like that. I remember it was an awesome cruising hwy car. Good for 80+ mph easy.

Honda should go back to the old days of lightweight FE cars...

The crx has a pretty low 5th gear that is pretty close to the insights, but its final drive was higher.

Having come from owning several Civics, both of which had the tighter, more performance oriented gear ratios, I completely understand, especially since I now drive the Honda with the tallest gears...

Having to downshift on the Interstate sucks. Top gear passing speed is important to consumers more than economy, so the manufacturers deliver.

Since installing the aero mods, I'm finding I am having to downshift much less while driving at highway speeds despite my tall gearing. Reducing your Cd is the functional equivalent of boosting your horsepower when you drive at speeds of over 60MPH since most of your engine load is from aerodynamic drag at those speeds. If they would ever start selling cars with a Cd in the 0.1's, you'd have good passing speed while still having the gearing for good FE.

save gas please

Wow, thanks for this post I've been looking at 2009 "corrolia wagon" IE:
Matrix/Vibe. I assume this this info applys to these cars too???

Yeah, the Matrix/Vibe share the same drivetrain as the Corolla.

The 2009 matrix will get slightly less than the Corolla at 26 city/ 32 highway MPG according to Toyota's web page.