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Well, having finally met xcel and krousdb and a host of
others at Tour de Sol last week, it was suggested that I
*must* jump onboard here... some of you may recognize me
from frequent spew into Priuschat and the prius_technical_
stuff yahoogroup, where I mostly hang out. The goals and
"neighborhood feel" here seem right up my alley too, so
here I am.
.
With the same line-editing weirdness issues as I wind up
having using a text browser against any php-based bboard,
evidently... oh well, at least it's readable.
.
Anyway, what I *don't* see yet is as much traffic about
Prius mpg technique as I would have expected. Am I looking
in the wrong places? I can probably contribute a reasonable
amount in this area, although a lot of it may simply be
rehashes of everything you've already heard from Wayne!
.
_H*

Welcome to the site. I don't know why there aren't more prius owners. It seems all the boards I go to prius owners don't tend to post as much as other owners. Maybe the are content and don't feel the need to post.

Well, I hope it doesn't scare you off or make you feel unwelcome. If you know other prius owners that are "into" Fuel Economy then drag them in here kicking and screaming. We need diversity.

Well, I'm not particularly worried about it... I see them playing
the fine-points numbers game over in the other forums, so this
site ought to have some interest for them and I'll definitely
point it out.
.
My latest effort is taking shape in [and now I get to see if
URL posting actually works]:
http://techno-fandom.org/~hobbit/cars/warpstealth.html
and I've got a few ideas about a low-rpm DWL equivalent for
the Prius, although it needs a little more testing.
.
This is like a year-and-change I've had this car, and I'm *still*
learning how it works...
.
_H*

Hi Hobbit:

___I watched you join tonight and was not sure if you would find something you liked here or not? We push tanks but not from a purely technical aspect. Rather it is more along the lines of the “Art” of Hypermiling if I might be so bold. I am still contemplating posting the Prius II P&G mini-guides in the King James version but with so few Prius II participant’s, I thought I would hold off until a few more showed up? Since you are here, I better get to it :D

___From my past reads of your posts, your expertise resides deep inside the Prius II’s inner workings. I don’t think we have those types of Prius II owners here yet but in time, they will arrive. That is when it could get very interesting … Your patented “Warp Stealth” mode is similar to the LGA (Low Gear Advantage) to N (Neutral) in the FEH which makes that monster sing too!

___In either case, it was really great to meet you at the Tour Del Sol this past week given I have been a fan of yours for a while now. I do not post into that particular YaHoo group given my lack of a Prius but the threads are in my In-Box every day and the best ones are given more then just a cursory glance.

___Please introduce yourself since there are many here that may be interested in knowing what kind of individual they are now speaking with/reading from as well as what you have offered the hybrid community in the recent past. I have a feeling many members of CleanMPG would find your prose more then just a little interesting ;)

___Good Luck and welcome indeed!

___Wayne

yeah let us know everything you know about your prius II. Curious since my car is getting boring now ;)

That warpstealth page you did is pretty amazing. Hope you stay and contribute more. I think good stuff like this tends to attracts more good stuff.

Heh.. I thought posting here *was* introducing myself! Well, I
just filled in my "homepage" spec which pretty much lays it all out --
between my own hacks and the "linkfarm" where I point to a
thousand other ratholes/resources, I try to point people at that
one starting point [including out in the real world, by handing
them flyers with the URL printed on it] for all their Prius
and hybrid needs. Now, of course, I gotta add cleanmpg to that..
.
My eyes were opened to some pretty OCD driving styles last week --
that's not a slam, but gave me a little more perspective on where
the ends of the spectrum are. Please don't mind if I land just
slightly inboard of the "hypermiler" end and try to also read
the presumed needs of the traffic around me a bit more, always
within reason. I've always been pretty calm and mellow behind
the wheel, but now I'm wondering what proper technique could
have gotten me in, for example, my old Isuzu Trooper...
.
My big thing this year is something like "how to convince the
common redneck to stop driving like a butthead". Probably a
futile effort, but as I drive around in my own rather "overdamped"
fashion it feels like I create a little island of calm around
me, similar to the effects described in the "traffic waves"
articles... which the occasional butthead will zip into and
try to disrupt and usually exit again fairly quickly, but then
go on to screw up some other knot of traffic. I'd like to come
up with some convincing arguments that when brought forth when
just casually talking to people would really get them thinking
about how they drive and how they could improve. But since
auto marketing and the culture we still have surrounding the
car in this country is much bigger than I am, my only hope may be
the price of gas. But for that to get out of control may only
promote more violence and attitude on the part of the people
I'm trying to reach.
.
But if I could work up some convincing piece of text or the
script of a talk or whatever, that would be something to have
passion about and try to go around delivering. I'm sure the
longterm numbers and accident figures and such would speak for
themselves given wide adoption of sensible driving and/or
better enforcement, but most people have this problem with
seeing long-term... which in itself is a major component.
.
_H*

Heh.. I thought posting here *was* introducing myself! Well, I
just filled in my "homepage" spec which pretty much lays it all out --
between my own hacks and the "linkfarm" where I point to a
thousand other ratholes/resources, I try to point people at that
one starting point [including out in the real world, by handing
them flyers with the URL printed on it] for all their Prius
and hybrid needs. Now, of course, I gotta add cleanmpg to that..
.
My eyes were opened to some pretty OCD driving styles last week --
that's not a slam, but gave me a little more perspective on where
the ends of the spectrum are. Please don't mind if I land just
slightly inboard of the "hypermiler" end and try to also read
the presumed needs of the traffic around me a bit more, always
within reason. I've always been pretty calm and mellow behind
the wheel, but now I'm wondering what proper technique could
have gotten me in, for example, my old Isuzu Trooper...
.
My big thing this year is something like "how to convince the
common redneck to stop driving like a butthead". Probably a
futile effort, but as I drive around in my own rather "overdamped"
fashion it feels like I create a little island of calm around
me, similar to the effects described in the "traffic waves"
articles... which the occasional butthead will zip into and
try to disrupt and usually exit again fairly quickly, but then
go on to screw up some other knot of traffic. I'd like to come
up with some convincing arguments that when brought forth when
just casually talking to people would really get them thinking
about how they drive and how they could improve. But since
auto marketing and the culture we still have surrounding the
car in this country is much bigger than I am, my only hope may be
the price of gas. But for that to get out of control may only
promote more violence and attitude on the part of the people
I'm trying to reach.
.
But if I could work up some convincing piece of text or the
script of a talk or whatever, that would be something to have
passion about and try to go around delivering. I'm sure the
longterm numbers and accident figures and such would speak for
themselves given wide adoption of sensible driving and/or
better enforcement, but most people have this problem with
seeing long-term... which in itself is a major component.
.
_H*

exactly what i was thinking. If people are easily influenece by the media, flashly things or what not. Then there must be an easy way to convince those whom we are interested in, there is a magic formula... just haven't cracked it yet.

Good to have you here!

Well, I'm not particularly worried about it... I see them playing
the fine-points numbers game over in the other forums, so this
site ought to have some interest for them and I'll definitely
point it out.
.
My latest effort is taking shape in [and now I get to see if
URL posting actually works]:
http://techno-fandom.org/~hobbit/cars/warpstealth.html
and I've got a few ideas about a low-rpm DWL equivalent for
the Prius, although it needs a little more testing.
.
This is like a year-and-change I've had this car, and I'm *still*
learning how it works...
.
_H*

Great to see you here Hobbit! I have heard of Warp Stealth before but never knew what it meant. You did a great job describing it and the graph is very interesting. I have always suspected that something like that was going on and have used it in the past. Something to remember for the next Tour De Sol!

Also, It would be great to have more Prius owners here. Maybe you can recruit some choice individuals from Prius Tech or Prius Chat? I would be happy to participate in the conversations but I may be rusty since my wife is the main driver of the Prius now.

Hobbit;

I did not know that you were aware of the (Some) drivers here in Nashville, TN. :confused:

Hobbit's comment from above:
{My big thing this year is something like "how to convince the
common redneck to stop driving like a butthead".}

There are just a (Few) of those drivers here locally. :rolleyes:

Terry (tigerhonaker)

I can't answer your question, but they are definitely welcome here!

Wild guess - many of the charter members were Honda people. Also, a lot of Honda hybrids are 5-speed, allowing us to be fuel control freaks and more to talk about.

Welcome Hobbit

Ive seen your post elsewhere and have read them with intrest.

psy

okay, is there some reason I'm not allowed to start
new threads, and yet allowed to freely comment on existing
ones? No other bboard I've run into even makes that
distinction.
.
_H*

Some forums such as "In The News" only allow administrators to start threads. Most forums here allow non-moderating members to start a thread.

Yeah. I think the news forum and the articles forum need special permission to start a thread. You should be able to post new threads in all the other forums. Let me know if you are having problems and I'll look into it.

Oh, okay. I was trying to figure out the best one to post my
throttle-control thoughts/rant and it almost looked like "articles"
was the best place. Maybe "fuel economy" instead?
.
_H*

If it is a good article we can always move it from where ever you put it to the article forum. I suspect it will be good :)

The reason for the article and news forums being "moderated" is because the have a special place on the front page and we want to make sure the front page stays looking nice.

warp stealth- sounds very similar to IMA-based ICE-on in-gear coasting. Just that tad of go-pedal to cancel out regen, but maintain openloop ops/fuel cutout. Easily doubles my coasting range over simple foot-off.

Without all the MG1 and spinning ICE with the traction motor stuff.

Hi Hobbit,

Great explanation of warp stealth! I've been using this technique periodically for the two and a half years I've had my Prius to great advantage. One variation I use it for is to supplement use of cruise control on the interstate with warp state application on down hills. For the last year or so I've religiously set the cruise on 55 mph on the 70 mph posted interstates here in WV, so that leaves plenty of room for additional speed on the many downhills on our highways. Using warp stealth not only helps the mpg compared to just leaving the cruise control on, but it also gets me where I'm going a little quicker!

Even on rural roads I sometimes apply this technique. Lately I've been taking a non-interstate route to and from work. Actually, I take one route to work, another home, because each offers a short steep uphill followed by a long gradual downhill that works great in one direction but hurts mpg in the other direction. Because there are limited opportunities to pass, I try to be curteous to other drivers who catch up to me by dumping my pulse and glide technique and maintaining a more constant speed at or close to the speed limit, which ranges from 35-50 mph. With the frequent topographic ups and downs I find warp stealth to be a helpful tool on those down grades as well, even as my speeds stays near constant.

With all the cold mornings of late I find myself hovering around 64 mpg for recent tanks. Looking forward to warmer weather and higher numbers!

Dave Bassage

ps - the redneck challenge is prominent here as well, but with such low traffic density it's less of an issue.

I'm here, and I check the site almost daily, but it's about 5 down my list of 'regular' Prius/hybrid sites so I haven't contributed a whole lot. more of a semi-lurker status I guess. Anyway, I'm glad you're part of this group Hobbit.
--evan
Well, having finally met xcel and krousdb and a host of
others at Tour de Sol last week, it was suggested that I
*must* jump onboard here... some of you may recognize me
from frequent spew into Priuschat and the prius_technical_
stuff yahoogroup, where I mostly hang out. The goals and
"neighborhood feel" here seem right up my alley too, so
here I am.
.
With the same line-editing weirdness issues as I wind up
having using a text browser against any php-based bboard,
evidently... oh well, at least it's readable.
.
Anyway, what I *don't* see yet is as much traffic about
Prius mpg technique as I would have expected. Am I looking
in the wrong places? I can probably contribute a reasonable
amount in this area, although a lot of it may simply be
rehashes of everything you've already heard from Wayne!
.
_H*

New member checking in here. Another Prius person, since Aug 2001. I already “overpost” on several other internet discussions, so will try to spare you most of that here.

My knowledge does not extend far beyond the classic Prius, and nobody should learn mpg techniques from me! My initial impression is that Clean MPG is very much about technique so maybe I can improve by reading here. To tell the truth though, I did better before increasing tread width to 185 mm.

But the classic Prius still presents some useful aspects. For one thing it is slightly more amenable than the new model to some DIY maintenance. This helps to keep the total cost of ownership low. Low total costs, low emissions, and performing most of what I might use a car for in a quiet and “calming” way. That’s what I’m after in a car, and I have to say I feel pretty lucky having found it.

Let our esteemed Wayne Gerdes and Dan Kroushl say more about how to convert knowledge of the upcoming terrain into high fuel efficiency! This seems like a very promising area. Some “rules” based on expert operator experience and a 3D basemap for the GPS should just about cover it. Interfacing with a Prius-type cruise control should not be difficult since it signals the ECU “faster, slower, etc.” by switching different fixed resistance values into the sensing circuit.

DAS

New member checking in here. Another Prius person, since Aug 2001. I already “overpost” on several other internet discussions, so will try to spare you most of that here.

My knowledge does not extend far beyond the classic Prius, and nobody should learn mpg techniques from me! My initial impression is that Clean MPG is very much about technique so maybe I can improve by reading here. To tell the truth though, I did better before increasing tread width to 185 mm.

But the classic Prius still presents some useful aspects. For one thing it is slightly more amenable than the new model to some DIY maintenance. This helps to keep the total cost of ownership low. Low total costs, low emissions, and performing most of what I might use a car for in a quiet and “calming” way. That’s what I’m after in a car, and I have to say I feel pretty lucky having found it.

Let our esteemed Wayne Gerdes and Dan Kroushl say more about how to convert knowledge of the upcoming terrain into high fuel efficiency! This seems like a very promising area. Some “rules” based on expert operator experience and a 3D basemap for the GPS should just about cover it. Interfacing with a Prius-type cruise control should not be difficult since it signals the ECU “faster, slower, etc.” by switching different fixed resistance values into the sensing circuit.

DAS

Welcome Das to www.CleanMPG.com
Hope you will enjoy the Forum. :)

Terry

Oh, yeah, I'd sort of forgotten about using the CC to set a
"baseline" speed and then staying somewhere above that with good
foot technique. I did do a little of that on my haul to Florida
and back last winter -- basically, just to prevent myself from
dropping down *too* slow if I wasn't paying attention for a moment.
The penalty, of course, is the fairly aggressive, high-RPM ICE
running that the Prius will do to get back up to the set speed.
.
But through some parts of the south, a baseline of 55 would probably
be way too low. Getting past Atlanta in heavy rain with semis
blasting by at 75+ on either side of me [I was mid-60s or
thereabouts, when I could see ahead well enough] really sucked.
.
_H*

But the classic Prius still presents some useful aspects. For one thing it is slightly more amenable than the new model to some DIY maintenance. This helps to keep the total cost of ownership low. Low total costs, low emissions, and performing most of what I might use a car for in a quiet and “calming” way. That’s what I’m after in a car, and I have to say I feel pretty lucky having found it.

DAS


You are lucky, I've been wanting that kind of car for a long time (EV mode is so useful I can imagine it for many scenarios for my driving). I see one now but the person who bought me this car believes that it will not be good for the long run. And there are so many DIY prius classic stuff that I thought it would be the perfect car for anywhere without the work either! (in terms of shifting gears). And all the hypermiling capability.

What's your best tank so far DAS?

...
What's your best tank so far DAS?

525 miles with no ding at the end and thanks *so* much for asking! You see, I'm no good at high mpg. Interestingly I have not been able to fill >10 gallons since last October, so the 2001 bladder may be losing some of its youthful suppleness. Most ever was 11.25 gallons, w/o running out of gas (I avoid that) and w/o tilting the car.

I believe that I could glide a bit better with weaker accelerator pedal springs, but not ready to tear into that yet. Could go back down to 175-width tires too, but these wide ones have several nice properties. Underbody smoothing panels, etc. Plenty to be done.

The problem with any modifications towards higher mpg is that they will only draw attention back to my clumsy right foot.

DAS

Hm you should post a thread about your daily commute (the one you wish to improve upon) and see if you can score a 60 mpg segment or something. The Tour Del Sol the best classic prius entry (only 1!) was only 55 mpg, so I think that's a good start for you to work towards!

Are there are things about the classic that bugs you in terms of driving for efficency??

http://priuschat.com/1372mile-tank-achieved-t19858.html

that's pretty crazy 82 mpg

[quote]Hello all,

I would like to report that a Japanese Prius driver, Nobu@Osaka, achieved 2,208km (1,372 miles) per tank.
We know Dan and his team did 1,397 miles last summer, however this 1,372 miles was done by a single driver.
The previous record by single driver was 1,317 miles by 108@Nagoya in Japan.

The displayed mileage was 38km/L (89MPG).
His basic mileage technique is Pulse & Glide.
Please note that Japanese Prius does not have a bladder and can hold up to about 60L (15.8gallons).

Ken@Japan
[/qutote]

Japan is starting to catch up in the FE craze too! His average speed was 45km/h in a 40-50 km/h zone. All flat with very little stop abusing pulse and glide.

:) Welcome Hobbit, I just got fired up on MPG this evenning. Wanted you to know another Prius family is onboard. Didn't have a proper referer listed which delayed the registration, but excel got me straightened out on that one. We have just started practicing the Pulse and Glide and are still novices at it so far. What amazes me is the feeling of elation and accomplishment when I see the arrows go away. I'm anxious to read the contribution on Warp Stealth. I was driving the ol' F-150 today and noticed how not in a hurry I was after joining the P/G congregation. There was unused fuel in the tank when I got home simply from driving in the eye of the storm. Thanks for being here.

:) Welcome Hobbit, I just got fired up on MPG this evenning. Wanted you to know another Prius family is onboard. Didn't have a proper referer listed which delayed the registration, but excel got me straightened out on that one. We have just started practicing the Pulse and Glide and are still novices at it so far. What amazes me is the feeling of elation and accomplishment when I see the arrows go away. I'm anxious to read the contribution on Warp Stealth. I was driving the ol' F-150 today and noticed how not in a hurry I was after joining the P/G congregation. There was unused fuel in the tank when I got home simply from driving in the eye of the storm. Thanks for being here.
Hi kennethandmary,

I met Hobbit at Wayne's house in Chicago this past weekend. We all then drove to Hybridfest 2006 in Madison, WI.

Hobbit took me on a demo ride and tell in his Prius and showed me how it worked. Very informative ride indeed.

With that being said:

:D Welcome to CleanMPG :D

Terry (tigerhonaker)

Prius owner speaking up, here. :D