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Is America ready for these new economy-size cars? (http://abcnews.go.com/Video/playerIndex?id=4113532)

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/501/2008_Smart_FourTwo.JPGABC Nightline - Jan. 10, 2008

It's here this month and it’s a start … No, it’s a SMART :) -- Ed.

Dieter Zetsche runs one of the biggest auto makers in the world. Daimler. Making high end luxury Mercedes Benz cars. And now he is bringing a new car to America.

Reporter: This is a Mercedes?

Dieter Zetsch: Not quite, it is a SMART and is a close relative to Mercedes.

A small relative. The Smart Car. Less then 9’ long, room for just two people, three cylinders, just 71 HP, 40 mpg and fits in half a parking spot.

They have sold 800,00 that have been buzzing around European streets for nearly a decade.

And starting next month …

Dieter Zetsch: Everybody who sees the car starts to smile and just like what he or she sees.

Reporter:A Head turner ha?

Dieter Zetsch: Absolutely, absolutely… http://abcnews.go.com/Video/playerIndex?id=4113532

That's a fun video. :)

I'm looking forward to seeing these things out on the road! I still want to test drive a 5MT diesel version...

I first encountered the Smart in Europe and loved the design. I put a deposit down when I heard they were coming to the States but withdrew it when I found out they we would only be getting the gasoline version.

A three cylinder engine that gets 40 MPG?

Alright, the yellow flag is down on the playing field! Something is defenitely wrong here. Maybeee its the tranny. Maybee it is geared for power and not for MPG.

Whatever the problem, I would need 60 MPG before I would even consider it. I can get 40 MPG any day of the week (except when I am plowing thru snow drifts) with my RRSB Saturn, hardly hypermiling, with the air conditioning on full blast!!!

Its cute tho.

I'd like to see a comparison test against the Yaris hatch. Why does the Yaris hatchback create none of the buzz the 42 creates?

Whoa, I never typed out the FourTwo like that! Isn't 42 the anwer to Life, the Universe, and Everything? ;)

I know that I think its a great looking car even for me being 6'9 and heard of the great mpg it gets over seas, then saw tthe epa rating for it here and saw my jaw just hit the floor.

I've seen several of the old ones on the streets in my area. A local used car dealership was importing the Canadian model and selling it to local American buyers.

The Canadian 2006 Smart ForTwo Coupe came with a 0.8L 3-cyl Diesel w/ 6spd manual transmission. On the Canadian fuel economy test, it's rated at 4.6L/100km city and 3.8L/100km highway (that's 61/74 city/hwy in MPG). By comparison, the 2006 Prius gets 71/67 city/hwy MPG on the Canadian test.

Estimated 33/41 (EPA 2008).

Let's see. What cars sold in the US that beat that. Toyota Prius. Honda Civic Hybrid.

So this is really really bad because?

(I wish people would quit pining about the dirty diesels that are *NOT* sold in this country. This place is called CleanMPG isn't it? Clean diesels are coming soon.)

-mr. bill

I'd like to see a comparison test against the Yaris hatch. Why does the Yaris hatchback create none of the buzz the 42 creates?


Because the Yaris hatch has 3 major flaws.

* The FE is identical to the larger, more comfortable, less econobox looking Corolla. Which is an excellent car by the same company.

* The Center Gauge Cluster is hazardous and awkward.

* The Rear Seat head space is uncomfortably close to the hatch.

Also, the Honda Fit has really dominated the sub market.

The Smart is like the Mini: you don't get it for the gas mileage, you get it for the look.

Estimated 33/41 (EPA 2008).

Let's see. What cars sold in the US that beat that. Toyota Prius. Honda Civic Hybrid.


-mr. bill


The 4000 pound Ford Escape Hybrid beats that!!!
( with a good driver, but costs a tad more )

Sounds like a "dumb" car to me!

The only advantage it has over other cars is parking. Other than that, a motorcycle or a Yaris is a better choice.

Hi GPS Man1:
The 4000 pound Ford Escape Hybrid beats that!!!
( with a good driver, but costs a tad more )
___What was that supposed to mean? There are at least 25 cars from any number of manufacturers that can beat an FEH with a good driver. The Yaris, Corolla, Camry, TCH, Prius, HiHy, Fit, Civic, HCH-II, Accord, Focus, Fusion, Aveo, Cobalt, G6, Solstice and any number of Korean’s and European makes and models with the right driver and 90% of them for a lot less …

___As for the SMART Fortwo, it easily pulls 50 + for those that want it although its Mitsubishi engine is not that efficient given its size unfortunately :(

___Good Luck

___Wayne

There are at least 25 cars from any number of manufacturers that can beat an FEH with a good driver. The Yaris, Corolla, Camry, TCH, Prius, HiHy, Fit, Civic, HCH-II, Accord, Focus, Fusion, Aveo, Cobalt, G6, Solstice and any number of Korean’s and European makes and models with the right driver and 90% of them for a lot less …


<Raises hand in support of statement> :D

The 4-2 is certainly a niche product which fills a specific need. US cities such as Boston, New York, Chicago, San Francisco, and possibly LA are the most likely candidates for buyers needing Smart cars. They'll sell 25,000 - 50,000 a year.

We should welcome the Smart because it helps validate the small car paradigm.


note on the old epa cycle its 40/45 MPG

Estimated 33/41 (EPA 2008).

That's only a little over what my old '93 Nissan Sentra got. I'd get 35 MPG from driving that thing like an idiot. I could probably pull low 40s knowing what I know now and not doing much that's crazy. Wayne could probably get 50 out of it.

The Smart is like the Mini: you don't get it for the gas mileage, you get it for the look.

Yeah, I've compared its attraction to that of the iPod, though actually the iPod may be a much more well-rounded device than the Smart is...

They increased the size of the engine for the U.S. market--to 1.0L. That probably reduced fuel economy a bit, but that was the only way to get the 0-60 time down to 12-13 seconds (I know that's plenty for everybody here, but it's right at the edge of what'd be acceptable to most people). Apparently the transmission shifts twice as fast as in older versions of the car, but that only means it's half an eternity.

You have to be careful about what you put in the rear cargo space, as the engine is mounted just below. There's some insulation, but it can still get warm back there.

Oh, here's something I didn't learn until just now -- the car uses premium gasoline. Well, it's economical enough that the excess cost of premium is offset by better mileage, but it's still something to consider. On the other hand, it narrows the gap between it and, say, a Corolla.

I think the people designing this car, and others like it, have a preconceived notion of what kind of accelleration Americans have become used to. They worry that a car tuned exclusively for high mileage wouldn't sell due to lackluster performance.

They could very well be right, but it would be nice if they would make a max FE trim for those who want it.

That's only a little over what my old '93 Nissan Sentra got. I'd get 35 MPG from driving that thing like an idiot. I could probably pull low 40s knowing what I know now and not doing much that's crazy. Wayne could probably get 50 out of it.

No it's not. Your old '93 Nissan Sentra got, in adjusted MPG EPA2008, 25/35. Look it up on fueleconomy.gov.

The benchmark has been changed.

-mr. bill

Smart is "not" at these numbers. Smaller than an HCHII (by a lot), similar price point, much worse gas mileage, slower. Makes very little sense. Looks like a death trap (even if it isn't). Reliability is questionable, dealer network is in its infancy - could go out of business easily.

Nope - wouldn't do it. Now if it got better mileage than an HCHII - nah - still wouldn't do it. It would have to be 70 mpg and me not having other options.

Hi 300TT:

___The SMART Fortwo costs half of an HCH-II and with a 36 mpg combined rating, only 6 off the 42 mpg rating of the HCH-II.

___The SMART Fortwo is not a Prius-II or HCH-II competitor. It is a down in the same price range (cheaper in fact when you include the safety and amenities) as an Aveo, Focus, Fit and Yaris. Utility is lacking with no rear seats of course. In terms of safety, it scored the same 4 stars on the Euro NCAP as the Civic did!

___It is not for everybody, that is for sure but if you wanted an attractive city runabout that receives HCH-II FE around town, the Smart Fortwo will do everything most would ever ask of it. And for a lot less $’s up front too.

___Good Luck

___Wayne

No it's not. Your old '93 Nissan Sentra got, in adjusted MPG EPA2008, 25/35. Look it up on fueleconomy.gov.

The benchmark has been changed.

You completely missed my point. I was saying that *I* got 35 in my old, crappy, beat-up, not-well-maintained, then-13-year-old car that I didn't try to hypermile, regardless of what the EPA said. I imagine that the combined estimate is 37 or 38, which is what I'd likely get in a Smart if I used my Sentra driving habits (maybe 40). 2 to 5 MPG is just not that much to me.

Even just going by the EPA numbers, 6 to 8 MPG more in a much smaller car that's being hailed as amazingly efficient is, in my mind, pathetic. Show me 50 or 60 and then I'll be truly impressed.

Hi Pdk:

___I do not think anyone here is hailing it as amazingly efficient but for the masses, it is more efficient than any other vehicle available other then a Prius-II or HCH-II. Would I purchase a SMART Fortwo with its manumatic tranny over a Yaris with a stick? Not a chance but it certainly does attract attention no matter where it goes and it is a lot more fun to drive then either a Yaris or Fit.

___Good Luck

___Wayne

I think there is a niche market for this. I wouldn't count out parking. In some cities, parking is awful. Actually some of the parking ideas appeal to me as well. Park in some not quite licit parking place that has shade in the summer (or just will nicely let you face out, when nothing else is available). I could actually get in my barely one car garage without any trouble (and my barely one car driveway).

Another possible niche is people with RVs. You could park your RV and actually drive around in the Smart. It can be flat towed.

Another niche, single people. (I might say without dogs-- but there are lots of cat lovers :-)). I actually wonder if I could even have one. IF I get another dog, not sure there is any space in the back. :-)

Another niche, might be people who would like a really sharp little car that gets good gas mileage. Maybe it could be a heck of a lot better (I'd like to see it go solar!) But for just a little money, you get a car that turns heads and gets pretty nice gas mileage by non-hypermiler standards. (I'm sure a few hypermiler moves would help a lot.)

I think I have decided against it for the space reasons (in summer I have to do a good bit of hauling as well. I have my eye on a hatch.) But the parking issues are really significant-- and even for me they would help. But it is an appealing little car at a nice price tag. I'd be surprised if there aren't quite a few CleanMPG folks with a Smart.



--des

Estimated 33/41 (EPA 2008).

Let's see. What cars sold in the US that beat that. Toyota Prius. Honda Civic Hybrid.

So this is really really bad because?

(I wish people would quit pining about the dirty diesels that are *NOT* sold in this country. This place is called CleanMPG isn't it? Clean diesels are coming soon.)

-mr. bill

Hi Mr. Bill;

This is really really bad because at the rate gasoline prices are escalating many Americans driving a 33/41 MPG vehicle will still find themselves financially very hard pressed. Today many are loosing their homes due to a cost of living increase never before experienced in this country.

High tech diesels in Europe, FROM WHAT I UNDERSTAND, are much cleaner than diesels used to be, and regularly achieve gas mileage in the 50 - 60 MPG range. I also hear they turn 0 - 60 in a little over 8.2 sec.

Being an old velocity addict from way back, I find myself "pining" for one of them suckers!!

Have a nice weekend!

Bob.

You completely missed my point. I was saying that *I* got 35 in my old, crappy, beat-up, not-well-maintained, then-13-year-old car that I didn't try to hypermile, regardless of what the EPA said. I imagine that the combined estimate is 37 or 38, which is what I'd likely get in a Smart if I used my Sentra driving habits (maybe 40). 2 to 5 MPG is just not that much to me.

Even just going by the EPA numbers, 6 to 8 MPG more in a much smaller car that's being hailed as amazingly efficient is, in my mind, pathetic. Show me 50 or 60 and then I'll be truly impressed.

I agree, PDK! And Wayne is right, it's a nice little car that will get you HCH II MPG driving around the city, but for the mill and drive train there, it is defenitely not energy efficient.

Bob.

P.S. GOOD POINT, Des. The Smart might defenitely make a good towed vehicle, say behind an RV.

Have a nice weekend.

High tech diesels in Europe, FROM WHAT I UNDERSTAND, are much cleaner than diesels used to be, and regularly achieve gas mileage in the 50 - 60 MPG range. I also hear they turn 0 - 60 in a little over 8.2 sec.


Hi Bob,
I'm taking delivery of a diesel kia cee'd SW in the next few days. Does 4.3l/100k and emits 129g/km of CO2. Its 0-60 time however, is 11.5 sec.:p
I suppose i could get it chipped to improve that but then i wouldn't be hypermiling it!:D

ollie

Ollie, your mean!!! H

I agree with desdemona's point about parking. Smaller cars have a distinct advantage within the city limits of Portland. The Smart has no advantage downtown, since the on-street parking spots are delineated with paint stripes and even an F-250 Crew Cab will fit. But everywhere else within the city, on-street parking is wide open and you can park in any space your car will fit into. Even a Golf or Civic will fit into a lot of spots that my Subaru will not.

In most parts of town this doesn't ultimately make a huge difference -- except in NW Portland, where fitting into a space that others can't could save you 4-6 blocks of walking. I would expect to see a number of Smart cars purchased this year by people who live in that part of town. I've already seen a few of the "grey market" Smarts on the road after a local dealer started importing them last year.

We don't have much of a downtown, and I have parallel parked about twice since I moved here (nice because my parallel parking sucks big time). Still there are oh so many times when if my Corolla was just a hair smaller, I could have tucked under some tree in 90 degrees heat. Or I could have found a parking space a few blocks closer :-) to something.
Or I could have faced out (I think non-hypermilers like to do this, because I see a lot of people trying to do this), if it were just a little easier. Some parking lots are like those little crash car lots-- a Smart would be awfully appealing in such instances.

Maybe you all are better parkers than I am. But if I can fit my dog into this (with the idea that there was someone sitting in the seat...) But a clean diesel Smart or hybrid Smart, and maybe the dog stays at home! I wonder if it will have appeal with baby boomers or retiree who have maybe lost a little hand eye coordination (or never have gotten it), but want a cool looking/driving car.

Yes, I think it will sell here. I see *lots* of minis these days. I do wish both were much better FE cars than they are. I really think that Honda and Toyota (with the Fit and Yaris) did a better job of getting FE out of their car with more space and still at a relatively low price. I do think for the sort of driving that a LOT of people do that is nothing but the kind running around here and there-- grocery store, bank, work (under 5 miles, no highway), etc. This would get pretty good mpg.

BTW, I haven't seen any Smarts yet. But we are pretty far from the Canada border!

BTW, per se to nothing, who didn't love the scenes of the Smart in "The Da Vinci Code". LOL! the movie was generally lousy but the Smart car scenes were wonderful. :)



--des

Just saw a Smart driving up the next street yesterday, and park in front of a house 2 blocks away from me. Looks like we have one in the neighborhood now.