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I just got a new ScanGauge II to put on my Turbo Diesel Smart. What a nice little device!!

I had a question regarding X-Gauge.

It would be nice to have a gauge that give actual "Boost" pressure instead of absolute pressure.

Since the MAP information is already present on the scangauge, I think that it should be relatively easy to add a gauge then do a little substraction to give an approximate Boost reading.

Something like MAP - 100kpa = BOOST. I know 100 kpa is not always the case as base map reading vary with weather and altitude. But that would be close enough for me without having to do the math in my head.. (I'm lazy :rolleyes:).

Anyone would know how to do that???

:confused:

It would be nice if the same could be done for PSI unit instead! :o

I'm suprised it does not do that. It might be good if it did both PSI & kpa:D

You could install an aftermarket boost gauge. They are fairly cheap and pretty easy to install.

Does boost ever get to be more than one atmosphere above ambient?
It seems like a center-null gauge going from 0 to 200 KPa with
the needle sitting at 100 KPa in the middle at rest might be
a nice way to visually have it as a balanced display.
.
_H*

maybe not on his car, but there are several cars running higher than 1 atm of boost stock. In the case of modified cars, they can see upwards of 3 atms.

Yes, I could install an aftermarket boost gauge but there is not really any Smart design gauge pod.. It's either an universal dash pod or nothing. (Not that good looking we will agree)

Boost on the Diesel smart is limited to 1.2 bar at stock level. So that would be 220 kpa on the scan gauge or 32.xx psi (17ish psi above ambient)

So nobody think it is possible to do that with the x-gauge fonctionality? Take the map reading and substrack 14.7 psi or 100kpa depending of the unit used?

Its certainly possible, but remember that 14.7 psi is not always the ambient pressure. It changes with elevation and weather (like you have already pointed out) I think linear logic would only want to implement a gauge into their scangauge if is was accurate for all people.. not just a guess.

I wouldn't hurt to ask though. Shoot them an email and see what they say.

I know Honda ECUs (and probably most others) have another sensor to read the current air pressure. Boost/vacuum would simply be the difference between the MAP value and the ambient value.

That would do it. All it would take is for linear logic to add an X-gauge that does the calculations shifty suggests.

@SmartMath
I had a question regarding X-Gauge.

It would be nice to have a gauge that give actual "Boost" pressure instead of absolute pressure.


The X-Gauge device (read about the name confusion in the next paragraph) will do exactly what you are asking for. This device was developed explicitly for the smart cars to be installed into the car's clock pod for an OEM look (see http://www.welte-engineering.ch). You can read the device's User Manual http://www.welte-engineering.ch/pages_english/download_english.php on page 26, where it explains how a known ambient pressure can be deducted from the absolute intake pressure that the engine's ECU delivers. Positive pressure figures will then indicate intake boost while negative figures will indicate intake vacuum. Pressure units can also be set to be in psi or bars.

The 'X-Gauge' name was ripped by the ScanGauge people after we have been using this name for over 2 years. Reason behind this is probably so that the ScanGauge website will also show up if someone does an explicit Internet search for our X-Gauge device. Although we have not trade marked the name I would not have expected that an American company would be so blunt and misuse the name of a competing device for their own purposes :mad:. Shame on ScanGauge!

Best Regards,
Roland

Hi Roland:

___Maybe you misunderstood what an X-Gauge is within a ScanGauge? X-Gauge is your own user definable gauge that can be displayed in the 4 parameter display. You need to program the parameter using manufacturer proprietary PID’s and thus the X-Gauge is an end-user definable gauge only. ScanGauge does everything your X-gauge does and more given the multiple trip computer functions yours seem to lack as well as working with thousands of vehicles. I did many searches for a user definable OBD-II based FCD early on and your SMART centric FCD product never crossed my radar screen?

___ScanGauge is the product. X-Gauge is a simple add-on to it.

___I hope that helped?

___If the X-Gauge is an OBD-II protocol based FCD that can be used on more then just the SMART Fortwo, I would be glad to do a product review for you if you would like?

___Good Luck

___Wayne

Yes, I could install an aftermarket boost gauge but there is not really any Smart design gauge pod.. It's either an universal dash pod or nothing. (Not that good looking we will agree)

Boost on the Diesel smart is limited to 1.2 bar at stock level. So that would be 220 kpa on the scan gauge or 32.xx psi (17ish psi above ambient)

So nobody think it is possible to do that with the x-gauge fonctionality? Take the map reading and substrack 14.7 psi or 100kpa depending of the unit used?

I would write Linear Logic/Ron about that. I guess the big question was whether or not the Smart's ECU senses the ambient pressure. I think that many ECUs do monitor this. Then it becomes simple subtraction.

@xcel

Being the developer of the X-Gauge, I'm very well capable of understanding what is meant with the designation 'X-Gauge' within the ScanGauge product. But this is not the point. Fact is that ScanGauge misuses the name that I have been using for my product for more than 2 years. They also are aware of this because they know my product and they know that the ScanGauge does only work on smart cars with the diesel engine and that it does not work on smarts with the gasoline engine (why this is the case I have no clue. There is nothing particular about the smart's OBD communications).

However, may be you misunderstand what the 'real' X-Gauge is all about. It was never meant to work on thousands of cars and compete with all the general multi-protocol OBD-scanners out there (I wouldn't even think of having to deal with all the incompatibility issues that these units have to face, despite standardizations). The beauty of the X-Gauge is that it is made to be installed in the clock pod of the smart fortwo so that it looks like it has been there from the start (no ugly box to Velcro somewhere on the dash). Having a superior graphic display with up to 7 concurrently displayed engine parameter does also help, of course. I suggest that you read the X-Gauge's documentation first before coming to some uneducated conclusions. Of course, if you do not own a smart car then this is all irrelevant to you but it was never intended to be otherwise. All I was complaining about is that the ScanGauge people intentionally ripped the name of my product and I do not think that this is OK for them to do. May be this is OK for you?



@2TonJellyBean

Unfortunately, the smart engines do not have any ambient pressure sensor, which would be, of course, the best way for displaying relative intake pressure accurately. That's why we can only subtract a fixed value for the ambient pressure that can be set via the user interface.


Best Regards,
Roland

Hi Roland:

___ScanGauge works on both the older CDI and upcoming gasoline SMART’s in the US and Canada. I had one in an 08 preview vehicle just 2 months ago and somebody up North has one working in their CDI given they posted about it the other day.

___ScanGauge was designed for OBD-II compliant vehicles here in the US (not the non-OBD based European vehicles) and with our prodding, Ron took it to a new level with all the trip and hybrid functions. As far as X-Gauge is concerned, that is another item we asked for as the entire Prius data stream has been available to those with Can-View for quite some time. Carl is working with Ron to pull the FEH proprietary PID’s to offer up the same. Thus ScanGauge now offers what we want through the moniker called X-Gauge. Sorry it matches your products name but it is an add-on, not the product itself.

___Finally, at $199 Euro’s (almost $300 USD) with only a small contingent of vehicles capable of using your X-Gauge, an interface placed into a specific gauge package and with reduced functionality, I think it would be best if you start upgrading your own units at a lower cost for your own customers?

___Good Luck

___Wayne

Hi Wayne

You must be somehow involved with the ScanGauge product, either commercially or emotionally, aren't you. Since ScanGauge does place ads in this forum, I guess you can not claim to have an independent opinion.

But why don't you just simply admit that the ScanGauge does NOT work with pre 2007 gasoline smarts (contrary to your knowledge they are OBD conformant, starting with the 2001 model) instead of telling us with which ones it does work now and in the future. It probably bugs the hell out of Ron that he can not make his product work on pre 2007 gasoline smarts.

I would like to emphasize here that I have only jumped into this thread because it was started by a smart CDI owner. I wanted to make him aware of an alternative device that would work the way he would like his ScanGauge to work. Otherwise I have no reason to be in this forum since it is not smart specific.

Just one last comment: The X-Gauge is a unique product, just made for the smart and well respected within the smart community. It works and looks great in the smart. Do not take my word for it, just do a google search with the keywords +"X-Gauge" +smart as in http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%2B%22X-Gauge%22+%2Bsmart&btnG=Google+Search. Smart owners (other do not have to apply) are free to choose if they want an X-Gauge that looks OEM or if they want to put a ScanGauge on their dash. Each product will have its advantages and disadvantages. It's that simple.

But telling us Wayne that it is pure coincidence that ScanGauge calls one of its features by the X-Gauge name is just plain misleading.

Best Regards,
Roland

Hi Rowland:
You must be somehow involved with the ScanGauge product, either commercially or emotionally, aren't you. Since ScanGauge does place ads in this forum, I guess you can not claim to have an independent opinion.___This is pretty simple. ScanGuage does not pay us a single dime for advertising but I created a forum for them because it is the single most important tool in a hypermiler’s tool box. Without it, hundreds if not thousands of us would be guessing at best. Read the review.
But why don't you just simply admit that the ScanGauge does NOT work with pre 2007 gasoline smarts (contrary to your knowledge they are OBD conformant, starting with the 2001 model) instead of telling us with which ones it does work now and in the future. It probably bugs the hell out of Ron that he can not make his product work on pre 2007 gasoline smarts.___Even simpler. Why would Ron at LL or I care if an SG-I or II works on a Euro SMART from yesteryear? I know it works on the CDI’s in Canada and the upcoming SMART here in the US. I sense a bit of ScanGauge II envy coming from your reply knowing Ron has created a solution that works for thousands of vehicles, not just a few :rolleyes:
I would like to emphasize here that I have only jumped into this thread because it was started by a smart CDI owner. I wanted to make him aware of an alternative device that would work the way he would like his ScanGauge to work. Otherwise I have no reason to be in this forum since it is not smart specific.___That is BS. You came here to whine about LL with nothing to show but a $300 price tag for an inferior product. Did this CDI owner talk about this here? Not a chance so you posted here why again?
The X-Gauge is a unique product, just made for the smart and well respected within the smart community. It works and looks great in the smart … Smart owners (other do not have to apply) are free to choose if they want an X-Gauge that looks OEM or if they want to put a ScanGauge on their dash. Each product will have its advantages and disadvantages. It's that simple.___Sure does. Do a google on ScanGauge and you might finish reading accolades after a few days. About functionality and price, you need to do some work on those issues.
But telling us Wayne that it is pure coincidence that ScanGauge calls one of its features by the X-Gauge name is just plain misleading.___Really Rowland? X is a function. You choose the functions output. I thought the naming was quite appropriate.

___Good Luck

___Wayne

I think Ron is trying to change the xgauge name to add-a-gauge to eliminate the confusion. I don't know if it's fair to imply he pirated the xgauge name to intentionally confuse people. His largest customer base I believe is still NA RVers, who wanted a transmission temperature gauge, which was the primary motivation for the add-a-gauge feature.

Woa!!

I didn't want to start such a controversial conversation!!

So is there anyone who found out how to do that yet? I know the number won't be exact, but I can live with it.. I would just have to look what the reading are when I power on the car and substract or add from there.

Woa!!

I didn't want to start such a controversial conversation!!

So is there anyone who found out how to do that yet? I know the number won't be exact, but I can live with it.. I would just have to look what the reading are when I power on the car and substract or add from there.

Yes, the add-a-gauge in the SG can do this easily. You can take the MAP reading and subtract a number from it. If you need explicit instructions, let me know. For example, the programming to subtract 100kPa from a mode 01 MAP reading for the FEH (or any CAN )would be coded as follows:

TXD:07E0010B
RXF:0441850B0000
RXD:2808
MTH:000A0001FC18

The FC18 is the 2's complement for 1000. It is 1000 instead of 100 because I am scaling the result by 10 to get 1 decimal place.

HTH

Thank you so much CarID. I wonder how you can figure out the RXF-RXD or MTH part yourself but you are obviously very skilled!

Since my car is not a CAN bus, I changed TXD:07E0010B to TXD:686AF1010B and let the rest as you put them there.
The gauge did work as expected. 97kpa gave me a -3kpa reading on the new boost gauge and one short drive confirmed it work fine. ( I can live with the difference)

Do you know if that is possible to do that with PSI instead? I tried changing the unit to PSI but that didn't change anything :)
I assume the correction factor for PSI relative to absolute pressure would be around 14.6psi to substract.

Thanks a lot for your help.

Hi Carl:

___Let me be the first to say, you are a true asset!

___Good Luck

___Wayne

Hi Carl:

___Let me be the first to say, you are a true asset!

___Good Luck

___Wayne

Thanks. A lot of people leave off the et.

For the PSI version of the above add-a-gauge, change the MTH to:

MTH: 00910064FF6F

This uses a conversion of .145, hopefully close enough. 0091 is hex for 145, 0064 is hex for 100, FF6F is 2's complement for 145. Again, the result is divided by 10 with the "8" in the RXF.

The units for the add-a-gauges are hard coded since, being user-defined, the SG has no way of knowing what their units are to begin with.

CarlD, that is incredibly helpful information. I am hoping to use a ScanGauge 2 as a boost gauge in my car as well. It is not a CAN bus, so if I use TxD = 686AF1010B and the rest of the information you have provided, do you think it should work?

Could you make sure I understand the Mth part correctly? I have done a bit of work in binary and hex so I think I see what is going on but I want to make sure before I go and confuse myself. It looks like the leftmost 2 bytes of Mth are a multiplier, the next 2 bytes are a divider, and the last two are an addition. If I want to subtract, I need to add the 2's complement.

Do you have some sort of guide that helped you to figure everything out? I'd love to get a copy of it if you do. Thanks.

CarlD, that is incredibly helpful information. I am hoping to use a ScanGauge 2 as a boost gauge in my car as well. It is not a CAN bus, so if I use TxD = 686AF1010B and the rest of the information you have provided, do you think it should work?

Could you make sure I understand the Mth part correctly? I have done a bit of work in binary and hex so I think I see what is going on but I want to make sure before I go and confuse myself. It looks like the leftmost 2 bytes of Mth are a multiplier, the next 2 bytes are a divider, and the last two are an addition. If I want to subtract, I need to add the 2's complement.

Do you have some sort of guide that helped you to figure everything out? I'd love to get a copy of it if you do. Thanks.

Yes, that's exactly what the values for MTH mean. This actually causes a problem with some of the FEH enhanced PIDs. They are in scaled 2's complement format, so the multiplication/division loses the sign. Still looking for a way around this since HV Battery current is one of the scaled 2's complement PIDs.

Ron gave me a couple of pages on the add-a-gauge feature back in August, but for some reason it hasn't appeared in the latest manual or on the web site yet. There was a minor error in it, but it is still light years better than what is in the current manual. I'll check with Ron to see if I can post it here.

Thank you so much!!!

It works like a charm. I don’t need to subtract the ambient pressure from the MAP reading anymore. The reading is not dead-on since the ambient pressure is not always 100kpa (14.5ish) but it is way easier to mentally add/substract .2 than 14.5ish.

I am sure that a lot of turbo’s owner will appreciate that new feature.
So now I have 2 more Add-a-Gauge… One named KPA and the other one named PSI.

CarID: Do you mind if I post this info on my Smart forum? I’m sure dozen of people will find this useful.
Seftomn: I did use 686AF1010B for the TXD field and it works.

That's really cool stuff. :)

Be sure to post your numbers in the Daily Grind thread, SmartMath!