Archives

my husband, who is a good mechanic, has suggested running a synthetic fluid in the MT on my HCH. i don't know what's in it currently. does anyone have that information, and would changing it to synthetic improve the FE, as he suggests it would?

he knows all the tricks we use, based on old mileage trials years ago, he just doesn't apply them. if i told him how i overflate my tires, he'd probably suspect i have lost my mind.

the MT fluid in your HCH is most likely the honda transmission fluid (if you've had it serviced at honda). The honda transmission fluid is not synthetic. It should be noted that Honda's MT fluid is basically 30 weight engine oil.

I've had good success with Redline fluids in the transmission and differentials in my old Subaru's.

he just sent me a link to amsoil. is that a good product?

All the truck manufacturers recommend synthetics for transmissions and differentials- specifically for FE gains.

Amsoil quality?- depends who you talk to.

Keith

All synthetic oils have followers. Some live by Redline, others by Mobil 1, even more others by Amsoil or maybe even Royal Purple.

There's nothing wrong with Amsoil or any of the oils I listed. Personally I used Redline in the transmissions of all my cars until I got the Insight (using OEM Honda Fluid atm). I'd have no issues with using Amsoil and I'm sure it would work fine for you. Switching to synthetic transmission fluid will reduce some friction and possibly could gain a minute amount of FE.. I doubt it would be noticeable over background issues though. But hey, everything adds up, plus its better to prevent gear wear.

Hi Laurie:

___Dan Kroushl was using 0W-20 Mobil1 in his Honda Del Sol with a stick IIRC. I would not just take that on faith without a little research but for a 4 – 5,000 mile FE gain while possibly driving to NY, back to Vancouver and back to MN somewhere around the end of May through mid-June for whatever reason would have me seriously looking into it ;) :) :D

___Good Luck

___Wayne

Maybe you will be able to find somewhere to buy amsoil. I could not find a dealer nearby. After I looked at the cost of shipping it, I determined it was not worth paying two times more for amsoil than mobil1 extended service.

If I were going to use a synthetic in the MT I'd look for one sold specifically as a transmission lubricant rather than as engine oil. I know that Honda in the past specified engine oil in their MT's. Perhaps they still do for some of their vehicles, but hybrids are probably fussier.

Engine oil and gear oil have different requirements. Gear oil must be resistant to greater shearing action but it is not subjected to wide temperature ranges or contamination with water/acid from combustion blow-by. Also, no worries about using additives that would poison exhaust catalysts because catalysts will never be exposed to trans lube.

I used to use synthetic motorcycle oil in our Hondas because most motorcycles use the same oil for engine, gearbox, and clutch, so I figured motorcycle oils would have additives for gear lubrication that regular engine oils might lack.

It's hard to know how different Honda Manual Trans Fluid is from motor oil (proprietary information!) but in late model MT Honda cars I'd be inclined to use either Honda MTF or a synthetic manual transmission fluid rather than synthetic motor oil.

thanks for all the input. i will check with honda first to see what they have in it, and if they have a synthetic. i use mobil 1 for the oil, so perhaps they have a gear oil that would work.

as you can tell, i may be able to drive the thing, but aside from the basics, i leave the insides to those who know that stuff. :)

Oops, so sorry, forgot to mention to be sure to get oil of the correct weight! What is called "gear oil" (or sometimes "hypoid oil") is often 80-90 weight ("W"). Honda MT's are different from many MT's in that they take a lighter weight oil more like engine oil. Honda Hybrids might take even lighter oil.

So check your owner's manual for the recommended "weight" (viscosity) of oil to use in the manual transmission!!! Be sure not to look at the spec for the CVT.

I know in the Insight they specify their MT transmission fluid OR 30 weight motor oil and I'm 99% sure the HCH is the same. If theres a performance auto shop anywhere near you they will most likely have a wide varity of gear oils to choose from.

Given the option you should use transmission oil over engine oil, but both will work in the honda hybrid MT transmissions.

I want to start this out by saying that I am not an Amsoil dealer but I am what they call a "preferred customer." This means that I can get their products at dealer cost but I'm not a business builder so I don't make any profit. I have, in the past, ordered stuff for people and had it shipped to them directly. I would be willing to do the same thing for anyone on this site. You would, of course, want to send pertinent info by PM.;) If anyone feels that this post needs to be placed elsewhere due to it's potential sales nature(Sean, Wayne, etc.) please don't hesitate. I just want to help out if I can.

I'm totally with Blake on this one - I've used Redline in all my Honda 5spds with GREAT success, it comes highly recommended by almost all Honda drivers. The specific product is Redline MTL, you'll need 2 qts.

Speaking of which, I've got 2 quarts in the closet I should dump in the Insight.

Also, even though all Honda manuals specify that you "may" use 30 weight oil, it is intended as an EMERGENCY use oil only. It does not contain compounds found in a true transmission oil, and will "wear" far too fast in the transmission, since transmission oil is not changed with the frequency that engine oil is.

If you have plain motor oil in your Honda transaxle, swap it out for Honda MTF or a quality synthetic ASAP.

The synchronizers in the Insight manual are very finicky. There was a thread or two at IC a couple of years ago about what had been tried. I don't remember the all of the technical details, but the hybrid transmissions were built different.The sychros would not allow smooth shifts with most fluids.

Amsoil did develop a trans fluid specifically for Honda manual transmissions. I have ran it for about 60,000 miles now and will change it again this spring. Take Larry up on his offer as the preferred prices are much better.

I have heard in the past in various forums, that honda transmissions require different transmission fluid than a lot of other vehicles. Putting in the wrong fluid can cause the transmission to not operate properly. I have read several complaints about various gear oils that were not specifically for hondas, where people had issues.

Honda recommends only Genuine Honda MTF, of course. The text from the Insight owner's manual reads...

If Honda MTF is not available, you may use an API service SG, SH or SJ grade motor oil with a viscosity of SAE 10W-30 or 10W-40 as a temporary replacement. An SG grade is preferred, but an SH or SJ grade may be used if SG is not available. However, motor oil does not contain the proper additives and continued use can cause stiffer shifting. Replace as soon as it is convenient.