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Hot Georgia - CleanMPG.com (www.CleanMPG.com) - May 14, 2006

One thing I can't ever understand is how most folks don't plan for the future, then when the future comes complain about it.

Case in point-
Many of us here have bought fuel efficient vehicles years ago as a result of watching fuel price trends. Hybrid and non-hybrid buyers alike.
My old way of driving with 25-17MPG 4-cyl Dodge was costing allot more than it should have. So in Jan '04 I got my HCH when gas breached $1.00 for the trend.
I learned how to drive it efficiently, mostly thanks to Wayne.

Then we have a large portion of the general public.

Many probably don't know but I've been posting allot of good, basic FE tips around the net and encouraging people and trying to break the myth that a vehicle only gets what it gets, discrediting the notion that little can be done about it.
(I know some others do that too)

Even though people in general complain...sometimes rather loudly about fuel costs, 90% ignore the fuel-saving suggestions. 9.99% create any excuse possible why not to change bad habits, and 1% will actually try it for good results.

For example during the Katrina crisis I posted some pretty basic FE strategy tips over at Edmunds. I also crashed the Navigator board at that site. It was a completely benign, friendly post. After a few posts they realized I wasn't out to cause trouble.

Out of all the boards I posted tips in, only one Navigator driver actually posted as applying the them. "Woosey-footing" as he called it but raised his FE from 17 to 28MPG.
Everyone else refused to modify habits.

I've heard allot-to-do about folks spending several hundred dollars per week for their daily commute, which leads me to think large, fuel consuming vehicles.
The "Jones" with their new Navigator.

I'm really believing much is lost, in the fact that people really don't take teir own situation into their own hands. Preferring that either the car, or government is responsible for lowering their transportation expenses.

God forbid they themselves take some responsibility for their own situation.

When gas recently hit almost $3.00 I noticed most people in my area were slowing down.
Fantastic! Now they're taking responsibility.

Prices have fallen a bit and lately it's all back to normal.
Hurry up to burn that tank off... and fill it up again.
Then complain.

The cycle continues.

Well;

That sounds like some of my Co-Workers. There opinion is, I'll just cut back somewhere else because I am not driving a small vehicle or driving like Grandpa.

Oh well to each their own.

if you tried, then wouldn't you feel more satisfied than whining?


In this world there are two types of people, whiners and tryers.

Or I would like to say but a bit harsh, people just plain suck they have more important things to worry about than their own future.

I got people telling me, "I ain't driving like a baby to save a few miles." Looks like someone has ego planted deep down their peanut size head of theirs espically when I see them just getting out of their car as I trail behind them.

Or people just suck at driving efficently (moving my right hand is too hard for me!! What?!?! that kind of driving sounds like work!!), that's how much they suck but people can sure speed because all you do is just mash the throttle and jam on the brakes because that's how simple their lives are.

Sure you can speed, you can swerve lanes without signalling, but you can't think for the fact that what your doing is completely useless when its all broken down by a red light.

Once again, people are good at having big mouths, but when it comes to actions people are completely useless hoping pointing at the next person someone will do their job for them.

My faith in human man kind has been shattered many times before, this just adds to the list of dissapointments of human achievments.

But the people that do try, they give me faith again... for now.

First, I think this rant is a great article and I'm moving it over to the articles forum.

Second. Everyone here should realize that we are all part of this human race and are in no way superior. Before we bash mankind lets relax and look at how we can improve ourselves.

Each of us is ignorant in our own way. People that want to put the blame on others are ignorant about their own role in fixing the problem.

Sometimes we are ignorant that some people are afraid to face certain issues and turn their face away and that by complaining about it does nothing. Just as they should try to learn to drive in a more efficient manner we need to learn to teach them that driving in an efficient manner is not something to be afraid of or something that is dangerous.

One concept I'm trying to get across to my neighbors is the difference between saving by 'cutting back' and by being 'efficient.'

'Cutting back' implies using less, but not changing anything else. Quality of life almost necessarily suffers in some way.

"Efficient" implies doing the same thing you do anyway, but doing it differently or with new technology that lets it get done with fewer resources.

Example of saving by cutting back: replacing the 4 60W bulbs in a room with 40W. You're using less, but the room is also dimmer, its harder to see, you'll get a headache trying to read...

Same case, by being more efficient: replacing the 60W bulbs with identical-output 13W CFLs. Now you are doing the same job with the same output, but doing it more efficiently. (and in this case, stil using far less energy than the previous part).

I point to our identical houses, same # of kids, similarly set-up fnished basements, entertainment centers, etc, but my 15% lower electric bill. CFLs, a few motion-detector switches, programmable Tstat, and water heater blanket.

You can either cut back on driving the vehicle- forgo getting the pizza or movie, don't take the kids to the beach- or you can drive the vehicle more efficiently while still doing all the same stuff. The net usage is ~equal (Careful- of course I still advocate not making unnecessary trips and cutting back where it makes sense!!! There's a difference between using because you need to and simply wasting) In the 1st case you have grumpy kids...quality of life suffers. In the 2nd case you have happy kids, and a little more fuel left than you would have. Net positive gain.

In something as large-scale as energy availabilty there is no such thing as an innocent bystander. One is either trying to be part of the solution or they are part of the problem.

One either uses less or not- either by cutting back or being more efficient. Ideally by the proper mix of both.

Education about how to do both intelligently is critically important- a role we fill in some capacity. But a cynical or pessimistic teacher does little good.

Georgia- you had a great post a long time ago about spotlights in the yard, the owner complaining about the cost, and then appearing to 'use less' to the Jones' by putting a box to cover up the light but keeping the light on. That was a great piece of work.

It's true that the vast majority of people refuse to take any responsibility whatsoever for their fuel consumption. "Fashionable" vehicles and driving habits are at odds with what is practical and efficient (and in many cases safe). We tend to take our image on the road far too seriously. If you are charging down the highway at 20% over the speed limit in the biggest, heaviest vehicle you could make payments on, for example, then you must be somebody! But if you drive a funny looking "egg" in the right lane at 10% under the limit, you must be one of those fruity, elitist, pale green freaks. (Break out your pot-and-kettle black-o-meters at this time.)

My opinion remains that this bad reaction exhibited to fuel efficient cars and driving comes from fear on the part of Joe and Janice Escalade. They have an idea of what it means to be a person of status, which is to have your large, shiny, expensive objects. They also have voice in the back of their heads saying that they might not be able to afford that object anymore. This is perceived as sliding back down the social ladder after working hard to get back up. From a psychological perspective, it is much easier to sit in denial than to face up to it and let one's lifestyle evolve within one's means.

Hot Georgia,

I share your frustrations in this excellent thread you started. Maybe alchol or drugs is not as addicting as "Keeping up with the Jones". We have talked with people face-to-face and on various forums who insist on driving something like a Navigator and logic does not work. They have heard us many times and choose to ignore the message. They are not stupid or did not understand what we said. They simply are addicted to accumulating things in that contests of "he who dies with the most things - wins". Recently Bill Gates said he wish he were not the richest person on Earth - Walmart founder Sam Walton did not flaunt his wealth either.

About fifteen years ago, I visited a church in an affluent part of Dallas. I was sickened like a few friends. While definitely not the only one, one guy really stuck out.

He wore heavily starched shirts, not a hair out of place. He often tried to impress people when he talked. For instance, he bragged about the luggage rack on his CRX Si that cost about four times a reasonablly good one. A few months later, he traded in his CRX for a SUV. It was probably more nausating to the single women more than I to hear this guy practically scream "I'm a hot elgible bachelor with money to burn!" I'm sure he was loading himself into debt like quite a few others. While he might have seemed spiritual in several areas, if some of his bretheren gently addressed his struggles with materialism he would be very uncomfortable. Then guys like that usually get married and feel compeled to get bigger toys....

I honestly think a lot of people put way too much of themselves into the vehicles they drive. They roads would be happier, safer, cleaner, and the gas prices lower if so much ego was not invested into those wheels.

aha! Found HG's analogy from last year. I LOVE this post!

http://www.greenhybrid.com/discuss/my-analogy.3471.html?page=1

Many probably don't know but I've been posting allot of good, basic FE tips around the net and encouraging people and trying to break the myth that a vehicle only gets what it gets, discrediting the notion that little can be done about it.
(I know some others do that too)


Great to see you here, Hot Georgia!

I have used copies of your excellent driving tips and passed them on to co-workers, mainly because they are always asking me "How is your little Insight wind-up car doing these days?, or Your car is a hybrid, my car can't do any better."

I rarely get any feedback from anyone about mpg improvements, just complaints and political jabs/attacks.

People are changing their habits. Once/if gas hits about $3.50 the change will be quicker.
Everyone who was around in 1979-80 can tell you that the change was dramatic. We suddenly bought smaller cars(smaller than what we think of as small cars now-Corollas and Civics were 2100 lb cars then), bought 4 cyl etc. We also eventually had diesel everything-Small Toyota trucks,Nissan Trucks, Chevettes, Corollas, Peugeots-we had lots of diesels. I forgot to mention the GM diesel that was a converted 350-best left unmentioned maybe.
The shock was greater than of course-gas spiked to 3x value over a few weeks/months, and we had "gas lines". We also had gotten accustomed to zero acceleration-the average car did a 0-60 in 14-16 seconds before the embargo, so we really didn't lose much performance because we had already lost it to the learning curve of pollution controls.
Folks now are starting to turn away from SUVs-it has already happened. Once we have $3.50 gas or $4.00 gas the $100 fillups will put paid to excess buying of big SUVs and pickups. The second runup to $75 oil did it for my Titan pickup. I loved that truck,and it was a great evacuation vehicle, but I only used it as a truck for ~ 5% of the trips(actually 3500 miles of 10,000 total). The big SUVs and pickups are excellent choices if you use them a lot-say 5 passengers while towing a big trailer with a Suburban- or a loaded bed 1 out of 5 trips with a pickup. I dumped the Titan(got $16000 for a base vehicle-lucky) and paid $7000($26000-$3150 credit) more for a Prius. It could have been strictly an economic decision-at $3/gal I make up the difference at 60000 miles. Of course it wasn't just economic-it was an emotional choice brought on by the irritation of watching oil climb and not being able to do a thing about it.
I promise you,once we have $3.50/$4 gas it will become an emotional/economic issue again. We will drop the big vehicles like hot stones!! Heck,in 1979 you could buy any of the muscle cars for about 5-10% of what they go for now. Corvettes held their value the best-buddy of mine bought a 1971(or so) 454 vette for $4000 back then. Before the embargo it would have gone for $6000-$7000. Other muscle cars dropped by more than 1/2 almost overnight. Kinda like used Surburbans now-2002's trade in for $8000!
We-USA-are changing-we just need one more nudge. Our president will probably provide the nudge by bombing Iran, so hold onto your seats, it will be a bumpy ride.Luck,Charlie

The people that drive me nuts are the ones who ask you about your hybrid because they are thinking about getting one as well. When they get a non-hybrid the excuses are soooooo lame. I understand that not everyone can afford to go out and get a shiney new hybrid but these people are in the market and can afford any reasonable priced vehicle.

I just posted an article SUV Sales is Up - and so is Gas Price Whining (http://www.cleanmpg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=772) . It suggests that the public seems to be willing to pay $4 a gallon before ditching their gas guzzlers.

I just posted an article SUV Sales is Up - and so is Gas Price Whining (http://www.cleanmpg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=772) . It suggests that the public seems to be willing to pay $4 a gallon before ditching their gas guzzlers.

Chuck;

Trust me in the area of the Country I live in this statement {SUV Sales is Up} by you in your above Post is most accurate.

Well;

That sounds like some of my Co-Workers. There opinion is, I'll just cut back somewhere else because I am not driving a small vehicle or driving like Grandpa.

Oh well to each their own.

i get crap like that to, even the young woman who works for me. she has a young child, and i ask her if she doesn't give any thought to her future. nope, she still speeds and gets lousy mileage. and rags on me for driving slow. i think i have just as much right to drive slow as other drivers have to speed. why are we always the ones taking crap for our speed???:mad:

As long as I am the one paying for my gas, I will be the one who decides how fast I drive.

On the way home from the Tour De Sol, I was drafting a truck in the center lane, about 3 car lengths back, at about 70 MPH in a 65 MPH zone. We were passed on the left by a P/U with a lift kit and huge tires going about 80. As he and his buddy passed by, they slid open thier rear window, stuck out thier arms and extended us a warm welcome with thier middle fingers.

At the time. Wayne an I were at a loss for why they did that or even noticed us. I was exceeding the speed limit and moving along the flow of traffic. Never was I in front of this guy and in no way had I hindered his progress.

Some time later the light bulb went on. The Insight we were driving had a license plate that said "72 MPG". Evidently the way that some people express jealousy is by extending thier middle fingers. Of course Wayne and I waved back with all five of our fingers. :)

As long as I am the one paying for my gas, I will be the one who decides how fast I drive.

Could be a good bumper sticker: "When you pay for my gas, you can tell me to speed up"

"When you pay for my gas, you can tell me to speed up"

absoltuey brilliant! I've been meaning to get a bumper sticker so that i can abuse going slow more often.... this could be the trick!

What was the bumper sticker I saw from a pic from the Tour del Sol? I think it was along the lines of "drives great - less filling!". I thought it was a cute one.

Here in pickup truck heaven in WV I've noticed no change in driving habits by gas guzzlers since the latest gas spike, but I have noticed a slight increase in harassment by other drivers when they catch up to me. I try to take care not to be an impediment to those who choose to drive faster. I stick to the right lane on the interstate and if someone catches up to me on a rural road I'll just drive the speed limit rather than my usual pulse and glide. If several cars stack up behind me I'll pull over and let them by. Even so I've had a few honks and lights flashed at me recently, and one especially troubling episode with a logging truck that caught up to me on the interstate and got right on my tail, blasting his horn, even though there was ample room to get around. I probably didn't help matters any by slowing down more every time he hit the horn, but found myself reacting angrily for once. Eventually he went around.

I do think that appropriate change in public perception will come, if not as quickly as we might like. There was a time in the U.S. when it was a status symbol to own a slave, even in the north. That quickly changed as the general population became more enlightened. I'm sure the day will come when Hummers will be viewed by the general public not too differently than a white sheet and hood are viewed now, but I think it will take more than $3.50 gas to get us there. Once the effects of Peak Oil hit in earnest, we may well find ourselves looking not just at high prices but actual shortages, and then owners of gas hogs will be viewed as the hogs they are. Lessee - cut off the roof and a Hummer would covert to a nice raised garden bed, don't you think?

Dave Bassage

What was the bumper sticker I saw from a pic from the Tour del Sol? I think it was along the lines of "drives great - less filling!". I thought it was a cute one.

Here in pickup truck heaven in WV I've noticed no change in driving habits by gas guzzlers since the latest gas spike, but I have noticed a slight increase in harassment by other drivers when they catch up to me. I try to take care not to be an impediment to those who choose to drive faster. I stick to the right lane on the interstate and if someone catches up to me on a rural road I'll just drive the speed limit rather than my usual pulse and glide. If several cars stack up behind me I'll pull over and let them by. Even so I've had a few honks and lights flashed at me recently, and one especially troubling episode with a logging truck that caught up to me on the interstate and got right on my tail, blasting his horn, even though there was ample room to get around. I probably didn't help matters any by slowing down more every time he hit the horn, but found myself reacting angrily for once. Eventually he went around.

I do think that appropriate change in public perception will come, if not as quickly as we might like. There was a time in the U.S. when it was a status symbol to own a slave, even in the north. That quickly changed as the general population became more enlightened. I'm sure the day will come when Hummers will be viewed by the general public not too differently than a white sheet and hood are viewed now, but I think it will take more than $3.50 gas to get us there. Once the effects of Peak Oil hit in earnest, we may well find ourselves looking not just at high prices but actual shortages, and then owners of gas hogs will be viewed as the hogs they are. Lessee - cut off the roof and a Hummer would covert to a nice raised garden bed, don't you think?

Dave Bassage

Hi Dave;

I find your Post here very interesting to read.

What was the bumper sticker I saw from a pic from the Tour del Sol? I think it was along the lines of "drives great - less filling!". I thought it was a cute one.

Here in pickup truck heaven in WV I've noticed no change in driving habits by gas guzzlers since the latest gas spike, but I have noticed a slight increase in harassment by other drivers when they catch up to me. I try to take care not to be an impediment to those who choose to drive faster. I stick to the right lane on the interstate and if someone catches up to me on a rural road I'll just drive the speed limit rather than my usual pulse and glide. If several cars stack up behind me I'll pull over and let them by. Even so I've had a few honks and lights flashed at me recently, and one especially troubling episode with a logging truck that caught up to me on the interstate and got right on my tail, blasting his horn, even though there was ample room to get around. I probably didn't help matters any by slowing down more every time he hit the horn, but found myself reacting angrily for once. Eventually he went around.

I do think that appropriate change in public perception will come, if not as quickly as we might like. There was a time in the U.S. when it was a status symbol to own a slave, even in the north. That quickly changed as the general population became more enlightened. I'm sure the day will come when Hummers will be viewed by the general public not too differently than a white sheet and hood are viewed now, but I think it will take more than $3.50 gas to get us there. Once the effects of Peak Oil hit in earnest, we may well find ourselves looking not just at high prices but actual shortages, and then owners of gas hogs will be viewed as the hogs they are. Lessee - cut off the roof and a Hummer would covert to a nice raised garden bed, don't you think?

Dave Bassage

Great to see you here Dave!

Welcome to another member of the Prius Marathon Team. Will I see you at hybridfest?

Well... I bought my hybrid so that I could still drive like a jerk and get good gas mileage. Sure, 42 MPG isn't as good as an HCH can get (I get about 47 when I DON'T drive like a jerk). But I think it's better to do aggressive driving in a fuel efficient vehicle if one can't break the road rage habit, ha ha!

"When you pay for my gas, you can tell me to speed up"

absoltuey brilliant! I've been meaning to get a bumper sticker so that i can abuse going slow more often.... this could be the trick!

There's an old pickup around here with a bumper sticker that says "This truck drives the speed limit. If I'm too slow, you should have left earlier." ;)

"This truck drives the speed limit. If I'm too slow, you should have left earlier." ;)

I love it, but I would be run off the road.

i just bought a new plate frame from the woman on GH who is selling them. it reads:

HYBRID MATH
55MPH=55MPG

if they don't like it, they can just go around.

i drive like a grandmother because i AM one LOL

:driveby1:

i get crap like that to, even the young woman who works for me. she has a young child, and i ask her if she doesn't give any thought to her future. nope, she still speeds and gets lousy mileage. and rags on me for driving slow. i think i have just as much right to drive slow as other drivers have to speed. why are we always the ones taking crap for our speed???:mad:

How boring it would be...
If everyone acted like you & me. :Banane20:

This morning, someone that was dissatisified they had two lanes to the left of me to pass, flashed their lights because I was going 50 - not the posted 60mph. :rolleyes: When they passed, I reponded in kind - sorry.

Hot Georgia,

I share your frustrations in this excellent thread you started. Maybe alchol or drugs is not as addicting as "Keeping up with the Jones". We have talked with people face-to-face and on various forums who insist on driving something like a Navigator and logic does not work. They have heard us many times and choose to ignore the message. They are not stupid or did not understand what we said. They simply are addicted to accumulating things in that contests of "he who dies with the most things - wins". Recently Bill Gates said he wish he were not the richest person on Earth - Walmart founder Sam Walton did not flaunt his wealth either.

About fifteen years ago, I visited a church in an affluent part of Dallas. I was sickened like a few friends. While definitely not the only one, one guy really stuck out.

He wore heavily starched shirts, not a hair out of place. He often tried to impress people when he talked. For instance, he bragged about the luggage rack on his CRX Si that cost about four times a reasonablly good one. A few months later, he traded in his CRX for a SUV. It was probably more nausating to the single women more than I to hear this guy practically scream "I'm a hot elgible bachelor with money to burn!" I'm sure he was loading himself into debt like quite a few others. While he might have seemed spiritual in several areas, if some of his bretheren gently addressed his struggles with materialism he would be very uncomfortable. Then guys like that usually get married and feel compeled to get bigger toys....

I honestly think a lot of people put way too much of themselves into the vehicles they drive. They roads would be happier, safer, cleaner, and the gas prices lower if so much ego was not invested into those wheels.


Did you not know..."He who dies with the most toys wins!"

Did you not know..."He who dies with the most toys wins!"

Mr Gates and Mr Buffet are rejecting that. Both are smart enough to realize the best remembered people in history are not on the Fortune 500 list.

I don't see them selling their mansions and living in a $300K home. Just because they are giving away their money doesn't mean they don't have a decent share of "toys"

I guess if you have a wife and two kids you realy *need* a mansion and a few other houses thrown around the country. No toys there. Nope.

True, they are not living in a monestary or in Tibet either.