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An idea came to mind from someone's post yesterday

Why not make gas stations cash and debit cards only?

Without use of the credit card, drivers will be more aware of their gas budget and hopefully drive accordingly.

Sell gas only in 1 gallon containers so people really see how much they are putting in. Next time you are in the grocery store, stand by the milk display and look at 20 gallons of milk, for example. Thats a lot of milk. Since the gas pumped into the tank is not visible most people have no idea exactly how much they are really putting in their tanks. Now if they had to cart 20 gallons of milk (gas) home each week, my bet is that they would be inclined to reduce consumption.

Speaking of my pre-hypermiling days (ok I was hypermiling but didn't know that's what it was called) I would sigh with each fill up. To me, it was like pumping dollars to see the dollars wheel spinning faster than the gallons on the pump. Honestly, I don't think those with ample money are going to change their driving habits no matter what we do but for the millions of Americans who live paycheck to paycheck, up to their eyeballs in debt, or one step away from bankruptcy, I think they feel every penny at the pump and it's mainly a lack of education and awareness that causes them not to drive with FE in mind.

IMO, charging cash versus credit might help those on tight budgets but won't matter much to those who regularly carry $100 bills (not me) :P in their wallets. I'd like to see more television specials on FE, more placards at gas pumps with FE driving tips or even, heaven help us, a special lane for slower drivers (not realistic, I know, but I can dream can't I?).

: somewhat off topic :

I think if folks realized how much FE driving would impact their bottom line they'd be much more interested. Many folks just won't care about x number of gallons saved but they will care about x number of dollars saved. Such as....100,043.42 gallons saved on the CleanMPG banner as I type. That's a lot of gallons but people spend dollars not gallons. At an average price approaching $3.00 a gallon right now I look at that and see "$300,000 dollars saved." Wow!!! That could pay off a mortage or nagging credit cards or put a few kids through college!

When I tell people about hypermiling they're usually very interested out of curiousity but when I tell them how much money it saves me a light bulb goes on in their head. I did the math for my wife and I and our driving saves us over $1,000 a year. That's not chump change to the average family and certainly causes greater interest in my business associates and friends - though I can't say it's always enough to get them to change their habits.

I'll stop rambling now...my two cents. Thanks for listening. :flag:

I think if folks realized how much FE driving would impact their bottom line they'd be much more interested. Many folks just won't care about x number of gallons saved but they will care about x number of dollars saved. Such as....100,043.42 gallons saved on the CleanMPG banner as I type. That's a lot of gallons but people spend dollars not gallons. At an average price approaching $3.00 a gallon right now I look at that and see "$300,000 dollars saved." Wow!!! That could pay off a mortage or nagging credit cards or put a few kids through college!

When I tell people about hypermiling they're usually very interested out of curiousity but when I tell them how much money it saves me a light bulb goes on in their head. I did the math for my wife and I and our driving saves us over $1,000 a year. That's not chump change to the average family and certainly causes greater interest in my business associates and friends - though I can't say it's always enough to get them to change their habits.


Spot on. Most people aren't going to pay attention until you put it to them in $$ terms. "I get 70MPG" is good for a reaction of surprise, but that's usually about it - or, that question is followed up with "you must be saving a lot of money on gas" or "i bet you're laughing all the way to the pump" or some such. But if I say "I'm spending $8 a week on gas" it's a lot more eye-opening.

Spot on. Most people aren't going to pay attention until you put it to them in $$ terms. "I get 70MPG" is good for a reaction of surprise, but that's usually about it - or, that question is followed up with "you must be saving a lot of money on gas" or "i bet you're laughing all the way to the pump" or some such. But if I say "I'm spending $8 a week on gas" it's a lot more eye-opening.

this is SO true. i have said in the past also: i spend 10 gallons a week. that makes them take notice.............

For me using the credit card is much better because I get a nice on-line display of all my expenditures, group-able by type. In other words, with just 3 or 4 mouse clicks I can see our fuel expenditures for a week, month or year.

Cash is not tracked, is usually unrecoverable if stolen, makes one go into the store to use (which will contribute to the obesity epidemic as junk food placement will be the new marketing focus of all fuel stations) and I hate having coins in my pocket. I don't even carry cash anymore.

Honestly, I don't think those with ample money are going to change their driving habits no matter what we do but for the millions of Americans who live paycheck to paycheck, up to their eyeballs in debt, or one step away from bankruptcy, I think they feel every penny at the pump and it's mainly a lack of education and awareness that causes them not to drive with FE in mind.

Cost will eventually cause people to change habits. Short of that, the only thing that would get the majority to drive with FE in mind would be if that type of behavior was seen to be cool, manly, American. Right now driving a small vehicle (unless it's a souped up version) is not cool. Driving slowly is not cool. Spending time to learn techniques to save fuel is not cool.
So how do we make it cool? Get Chuck Norris to sign up to do a hypermiling PSA and you'd be half way there...:D

A lot of people have the credit cards with percentage rebates at gas stations. I, for one, rarely use my credit cards for gas. I use my debit card every time, although I use it as a credit card at the pump. But it's still money out of my account right away (excluding the 1-2 day delay, of course).

Cost will eventually cause people to change habits. Short of that, the only thing that would get the majority to drive with FE in mind would be if that type of behavior was seen to be cool, manly, American. Right now driving a small vehicle (unless it's a souped up version) is not cool. Driving slowly is not cool. Spending time to learn techniques to save fuel is not cool.
So how do we make it cool? Get Chuck Norris to sign up to do a hypermiling PSA and you'd be half way there...:D

Ok, there needs to be some sort of Chuck Norris fact (www.chucknorrisfacts.com) about hypermiling. Unfortunately, spending all day trying to get ODBC crap to compile has taken all the creativity and funny out of me.

Seriously, though, there needs to be some sort of awesome celebrity spokesperson for hybrids or FE driving, or some sports star needs to get a Tesla Roadster, or somehow I have to become ridiculously famous and good-looking so I can be that spokesperson.

OK, with regards to the original post...I think cash-only might be a bit much, but cash-or-debit only might work. Plus it makes credit card companies not skim off the top (hey, this'll reduce the price of gas by $0.10...yay?).

considering how much cash some people need to fill their vehicle, i would think the idea of carrying enough around would make them ripe for robbery.....

For me using the credit card is much better because I get a nice on-line display of all my expenditures, group-able by type. In other words, with just 3 or 4 mouse clicks I can see our fuel expenditures for a week, month or year.

Cash is not tracked, is usually unrecoverable if stolen, makes one go into the store to use (which will contribute to the obesity epidemic as junk food placement will be the new marketing focus of all fuel stations) and I hate having coins in my pocket. I don't even carry cash anymore.

I'm a pretty obsessive spending tracker, and this is a good point. Eventually it all goes into [accounting software of choice], but it's very convenient to be able to double-check if I happen to lose a receipt or something. There is also something to be said for the extra disconnect of "not-tied-directly-to-my-savings" that you don't have with a debit card and (especially) cash.

Unfortunately that disconnect works both ways.

I know this has already been mentioned, but I've seen some gas credit cards that offered a 5% cash back on gas purchases. That sort of percentage would be great for reducing costs even more for the hypermiler but the only catch would be is if the credit card does not charge an annual fee...

that's getting me thinking. Granted I hardly drive enough to make it that big a deal (usually go almost a month on a tank in the insight so I probably would only fill up 14-15 times a year)

At $3 a gallon that 5% would save me $22.50... not much but signifigant :)

But your right about making people pay cash at the pumps would probably open some eyes to their gas sucking ways.

A mandated FE placard at the pump would be a great idea I think. The government already requires energy utilities educate customers on energy saving why not do the same to fuel companies?

"cash is not tracked." ... and this is a problem WHY?
.
Requiring people to go into the store to pay cash for their gas
would likely encourage the sale of a lot more coffee, too.
.
_H*

You folks have hit on exactly the reason I like using my debit card. I don't have to keep stopping at an ATM, I can call to get it deactivated if stolen (and I have protection for that as well), and it reinforces my natural tendency to want to track every penny. I only spend what I already have if at all possible.

For several months now I've only been using my debit card for gas because I purchase at Costco. I have to swipe the membership card first (which isn't a credit card -- though the wife's is), then I swipe my card. I'm nervous about using my debit card at a regular pump but this two layer check seems a bit more secure to me? The station there also has four additional benefits: it is cheaper, it is cleaner, it is less crowded, and the pumps are not nearly as finicky as other stations about fill level. Now that I top off it isn't as much of a concern but I discovered a while ago that many stations didn't fill as high as they should...

All this talk of gallons saved got me curious... I've got over 5 years of data in the mileage logs here now for my Elantra. Checking that out I discovered that I've saved 465.4g over the life of the car. At a cost of $3 per gallon that is roughly $1396.07 saved (had I bought all that today!!!).

For the last 6 months alone (when I truly started ramping it up) I have saved an astounding (to me!!!) 140.9g !!! At $3 that would be a solid $422.63 or nearly 9.5 tanks of gas!!!

I know that what I've saved is probably nothing compared to some people here, but GEEZ!!! That is eye opening!!!

I'm nervous about using my debit card at a regular pump but this two layer check seems a bit more secure to me?

Security comes from how Costco is storing your CC/Debt information if at all and who has access to it. How many hoops they make you go through is only relevant if the person with that information tries to use your card at Costco pumps.

For me using the credit card is much better because I get a nice on-line display of all my expenditures, group-able by type. In other words, with just 3 or 4 mouse clicks I can see our fuel expenditures for a week, month or year.

Cash is not tracked, is usually unrecoverable if stolen, makes one go into the store to use (which will contribute to the obesity epidemic as junk food placement will be the new marketing focus of all fuel stations) and I hate having coins in my pocket. I don't even carry cash anymore.

Pretty much the same for me too.

There are other advantages as well:
- Withdrawals from most banks carry a transaction fee. It gets worse when you withdraw from a competing bank to pay for the gas and other smaller things - all on a moment's need.
- My credit cards always have a no fee usage feature. Besides using your credit card responsibly helps build a solid credit history. Cash transactions do little to nothing as they are not tracked. Nothing like building one's FICO score slowly but surely and a properly managed credit card is a good way to do it.
- No cash, no fat wallets and pennies... oh those pennies in the dozens... overflowing in drawers, pocket holes,... <snap back to present>.

Besides, I have always driven fuel efficient cars, efficiently. The greatest pain for me would not be at the pump. Instead, it would be to go back to cash and waiting in line at the counter to pay for my small amount of fuel.

Cheers;

MSantos

Good points on the credit card - I earned some credits on my Shell card.

It's worth noting that before Katrina, about 50% of purchases were credit card - 70% after.

The motivation of this thread is how to better remind drivers they are putting a lot of money into their tanks.

If people were rational it wouldn't make much difference, but maybe people aren't all that rational. Some people say that EZ Pass makes it easier to raise tolls http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/04/business/04leonhardt.html.

I don't see why perceptions of fuel costs would be different.

The motivation of this thread is how to better remind drivers they are putting a lot of money into their tanks.

Maybe if the numbers on the pump were five times the current size and when each whole dollar amount was reached during fill up there would be a very loud <DING> sound and then a voice saying, "Seventeen dollars and counting..."

If people were rational it wouldn't make much difference, but maybe people aren't all that rational. Some people say that EZ Pass makes it easier to raise tolls http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/04/business/04leonhardt.html.

I don't see why perceptions of fuel costs would be different.In theory you are correct, but I'm always reminded of Scott Adams' premise in Dilbert:

People are STUPID

When I tell people about hypermiling they're usually very interested out of curiousity but when I tell them how much money it saves me a light bulb goes on in their head. I did the math for my wife and I and our driving saves us over $1,000 a year. That's not chump change to the average family and certainly causes greater interest in my business associates and friends - though I can't say it's always enough to get them to change their habits.

:flag:
I told my skeptical workmates that i save 500 euro per annum by hypermiling. They seemed more interested then!