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My FEH went down Sat. while my wife headed to Blockbuster with my youngest boy. Had it towed today to the Dealership with two codes on my SG11, C0900 (Device Voltage High EBCM) and U2500 (CAN) Lack of Acknowledgment From Engine Management. The message read "service emissions sys.", but changed to "stop safety now" and died.

As of 430pm, they think it is the HV battery but are talking to Ford and will know more tomorrow. There is a new "Customer Satisfaction Program" in which Ford has authorized our dealers to replace a "corrosion of a resistor" located in the battery module. My understanding is the HV battery cannot be serviced other than a reflash of the Battery module.

Will keep you updated.

GaryG

Good luck, Gary!!! I hope you get her back soon. :(

Yikes! Glad to hear there on the ball and working it out.

Good luck

11011011

Hi Gary:

___I have never heard of an FEH pack heading south and you may be the first if that is the problem?

___Hmmm. I did not think anyone could break one given the massive amount of pack protection Ford designed into it but if anyone had a shot, you would be the candidate.

___Good Luck and keep us informed as to the diagnosis and outcome.

___Wayne

Good luck Gary!

Definitely keep us posted - in detail ;)

Hi Gary:

___I have never heard of an FEH pack heading south and you may be the first if that is the problem?

___Hmmm. I did not think anyone could break one given the massive amount of pack protection Ford designed into it but if anyone had a shot, you would be the candidate.

___Good Luck and keep us informed as to the diagnosis and outcome.

___Wayne

Thanks for your confidence Wayne.

Well this is day three and the SA said their Hybrid Tech and Ford are at a lost as to what's wrong. The SA called me yesterday and I can assure you that Ford and the Dealership is reading our post on the FEH. The SA knew and confirmed my heater core bypass and wanted to know if I had somehow reprogrammed my PCM. It seemed they thought I had done so because of the MPG I get. She said there were some strange codes stored and they didn't know how they got there. I assured her I didn't have the equipment or knowledge to do something like that. Not sure if they are trying to say I made modifications that would void my hybrid warranty or what. Glad I never needed to used a radiator block or posted about that.

The SA said Ford is asking for pictures of the engine compartment now and she would know more tomorrow hoping to give me some answers. I ask if the HV battery was bad and she said they don't know now. She said the Hybrid Tech had spent many hours on this job and so far they found a coil that had carbon build-up and said something about my driving. I did have a strong burning smell three times with less than 5,000 miles and brought the FEH in, but the SA said since there was no problems present then, there was no use having them check it out. I notice I lost autolocks as well as a key locking system at that time. Ford had stated that they pulled the autolocking feature from the '05 because of problems. The Hybrid Tech refused to reprogram that feature back in my FEH, but reprogrammed the key locking system. If a coil has carbon build-up, it must have been tied to autolock.

I'll wait for answers by Ford before I take any action, but the members need to know how Ford deals with warranty and repairs.

GaryG

Well, considering that you didn't mess with the hardware (except for the heater core bypass, which has nothing to do with the HV system whatsoever) then they have no right to deny any warranty service. When you consider how the average American treats a car they have to expect that the system will be used to the full extent of its capabilities. It would be EXTREMELY disappointing if they tried to pull something and I can't even imagine what kind of press that would get them, particularly with spy shots of the Fusion hybrid indicating that the car's release is looming just over the horizon.

I hope this is a case of Ford doing extra duty to diagnose and understand any failures in their hybrid drivetrain.

If that is the case, thank you for your patience on behalf of all current and future FEH, MMH, MTH (FFH?) owners that may see this issue. TSBs have to come from somewhere.


P.S. If you're reading this and you're a Ford rep, I'd like to discuss a few design issues with the '08 FEH.

Well, considering that you didn't mess with the hardware (except for the heater core bypass, which has nothing to do with the HV system whatsoever) then they have no right to deny any warranty service. When you consider how the average American treats a car they have to expect that the system will be used to the full extent of its capabilities. It would be EXTREMELY disappointing if they tried to pull something and I can't even imagine what kind of press that would get them, particularly with spy shots of the Fusion hybrid indicating that the car's release is looming just over the horizon.

Just got my FEH back and had a long talk with the Hybrid Tech. It turns out I had a very long list of codes stored in my PCM, so they were having a hard time locating the problem. Because of so much talk about plug-in conversions, Ford thought I had attempted or was plugging my FEH in to charge the HV battery. They ask the Tech to take pictures of my SG11 and see if he could tell if I was using it to program my PCM for a plug-in charger. The codes were saying my battery and everything else were bad, and they still could not get the ICE started.

Finally they found the fuel injector coil with carbon on the contacts which explains why my engine had been running poorly for months. It would diesel when I shut it down some times. After replacing the injector coil, the engine still would not start. Ford and the Tech determined that the SG11 was not used to program the PCM, and all the pictures they took did not indicate I had made a plug-in FEH. Ford then ask the tech to replace the Power Sustain Relay (PSR) which is wired in parallel with the electronic engine control (EEC) power relay. The PCM and the transaxle control module (TCM) use the PSR to keep the modules powered with the 12V system. The PSR has a lot to do with key-off and normal power down and key-on sequences and power to coil/injector relay. After the PSR was replaced out of warranty, and all the man hours of locating the problem, this set me back $722, which included towing.

Ford and the Hybrid Tech said this is the first time they've seen this problem. Just a little research and I'm very convinced that repeated FAS caused the PSR to short out.

My FEH had the most testing of any FEH the Tech as ever seen and is in great working order now. The Tech did the "Customer Satisfaction Program" (recall) on the HV battery and up dated the firmware in the Battery Control Module. Others had notice a change in EV and I can confirm things are much smoother now. The PCM's did not get a reflash as part of the recall as I suspected as I talked to the Tech for about 45 minutes and I took him for a long drive to explain Hypermiling and test the vehicle. All in all, a nice bunch of folks.

GaryG

That's good that the battery wasn't bad, although if it was it wouldn't have cost you as much. Just curious, did you try to get any of the work as warranty? Also, I couldn't find the codes you said the SG showed in the PED manual. How did you determine what they meant, or did I just miss them somehow?

I took my FEH in today, but they didn't have the harness and thus obviously didn't do the 07B48 work. They did manage to put .5 miles on it, and drop my MPG from 42.2 to 41.8 while doing the headliner recall. Supposedly this was to take it to the car wash and back.

I'm glad this all worked out! A little expensive but at least you learned something new, I guess.

That's good that the battery wasn't bad, although if it was it wouldn't have cost you as much. Just curious, did you try to get any of the work as warranty? Also, I couldn't find the codes you said the SG showed in the PED manual. How did you determine what they meant, or did I just miss them somehow?

I took my FEH in today, but they didn't have the harness and thus obviously didn't do the 07B48 work. They did manage to put .5 miles on it, and drop my MPG from 42.2 to 41.8 while doing the headliner recall. Supposedly this was to take it to the car wash and back.

Hi Carl

Yes, I tried to get anything and everything under warranty. Because it cost the Dealership almost $500 in labor to their Hybrid Tech man hours (I think that was conservative), and the parts were not covered, they struck a deal with me.

I found the codes the SG11 showed on the internet. It turns out the SG11 is not the best Scan tool, but it did confirm I was having bad CAN communications. The emissions message in the message center could also be explained with the bad idle and it shutting off. The EBCM high voltage code the SG11 came up with may be from everything that was screwed up from the PSR.

Hi Brick

Yes, I learned a lot. I know if someone is having the same problems I did, they could try ordering $24's in relays and coils and replace them. Also, I got a good lesson in warranty work again. If my SA had just said Ford thinks I maybe one of these plug-in freaks, I would have ended that thinking with what I believe. The FEH transaxle motors are not meant for all EV use IMO. The Tech also said he knew what I was doing with the heater core bypass, and it explained itself given my conditions. Stay cool folks!

GaryG

Out of warranty?

Wow, that is quite a story, Gary!! Plug in AND reprogramming using an SG?? Sheesh.

I'm glad you have your vehicle back in excellent working order -- I know how frustrating it is to be without your own car!

Are you now concerned about FASing? How will this modify your driving?

Wow, that is quite a story, Gary!! Plug in AND reprogramming using an SG?? Sheesh.

I'm glad you have your vehicle back in excellent working order -- I know how frustrating it is to be without your own car!

Are you now concerned about FASing? How will this modify your driving?

Hi Sean

I stop FASing for a month and a half now and my mileage has not changed that much. The big change may be in cold weather which is limited in my location.

This lessen has confirmed that Ford is looking for any excuse to void the 8yr/100K limited hybrid warranty. I got charged man hours in Fords attempt to document everything and anything, I'm not happy about that at all. The repair were poorly documented without part numbers and the SA would not give me any copies of documentation of codes or anything. She held them in her hands, but would not give me copies of anything.

GaryG

Wow. That leaves a bad taste in MY mouth -- I can only imagine how you feel about it. :( It certainly doesn't improve my estimation of Ford.

Do you have any recourse?

That is why my last Ford was a 1972. Why do they always try to blame the driver first? (But in all fairness other car makers do it too!)

Hi Sean

I stop FASing for a month and a half now and my mileage has not changed that much. The big change may be in cold weather which is limited in my location.

This lessen has confirmed that Ford is looking for any excuse to void the 8yr/100K limited hybrid warranty. I got charged man hours in Fords attempt to document everything and anything, I'm not happy about that at all. The repair were poorly documented without part numbers and the SA would not give me any copies of documentation of codes or anything. She held them in her hands, but would not give me copies of anything.

GaryG

It's not cool to not give you documentation that would support the man hours that they charged. Have you paid the bill already? Superficially it sounds like you were overcharged for work you did not authorize (i.e. the attempts to prove that you withheld information about modifications that would void the warranty.) I'm pretty sure that work should be done on Ford's dime.

Gary,

I just did a quick search and found this site pertaining to FLA and consumer rights regarding vehicle repair: http://www.800helpfla.com/motorveh.html

In it there's a section regarding "After the repairs" which states:

"If you do not receive satisfaction, contact the Florida Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services at 1-800-HELP-FLA (435-7352)."

They may be able to let you know what your options are in this case. You certainly should be able to get a detailed bill and report of what was done to your vehicle.

Sounds to me like there were probably notes within the report the SA had that they obviously didn't want you to see (maybe documenting time spent on their incorrect plug-in and re-programing assumptions/accusations).

I guess it all comes down to how far you want to pursue this. I'd at least make the call to Florida Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services and see what they say.

Good luck!

Wow Gary :eek:

Thank you for this description of your experiences with Ford! Glad you were able to get the problem fixed :), not so great that it cost so much :( And very disappointing that Ford was so reluctant to stand behind their product :( :( :(

Gary,

I just did a quick search and found this site pertaining to FLA and consumer rights regarding vehicle repair: http://www.800helpfla.com/motorveh.html

In it there's a section regarding "After the repairs" which states:

"If you do not receive satisfaction, contact the Florida Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services at 1-800-HELP-FLA (435-7352)."

They may be able to let you know what your options are in this case. You certainly should be able to get a detailed bill and report of what was done to your vehicle.

Sounds to me like there were probably notes within the report the SA had that they obviously didn't want you to see (maybe documenting time spent on their incorrect plug-in and re-programing assumptions/accusations).

I guess it all comes down to how far you want to pursue this. I'd at least make the call to Florida Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services and see what they say.

Good luck!

Thanks Mypart

I really don't have any trust in government agencies since I worked for them for over 20yrs. Unless you pay to play, they don't much care to go out of there way to help. There are exceptions though, but I don't even care to find out anymore. Hopefully, I've shared something for others here to be aware of.

The SA and the Tech had to work with the Ford system so I don't blame them. If the cost of a new HV battery or eCVT was involved, Court would be the only route IMO. Having had a situation where I did not put up a fight for paying $722 for $24 in a relay and coil says something for a future fight for a HV battery or eCVT if I need to.

GaryG

Here is a site with a lot of information on the FEH HV system.
http://www.eaa-phev.org/wiki/Escape_PHEV_TechInfo
BobB