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January 2008 will begin a new era for the Smart … all over again. (http://www.cleanmpg.com/forums/in-the-news/t-smart-usa-announces-pricing-for-the-2008-fortwo-6219.html#post44487)

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/501/2008_Smart_FourTwo.JPG Wayne Gerdes - CleanMPG (www.cleanmpg.com) - Sep. 5, 2007

The Smart FourTwo as seen in Europe is an interesting and somewhat miserly 2-seater with a unique SWATCH/MB heritage. Will it succeed in the US will be decided very soon.

As has been previously discussed, the Smart FourTwo will be available in three trim levels. The entry-level Pure will start at $11,590 with a 5-speed transmission that allows its driver to switch between automatic and manual modes with the push of a button, PL, 2-spoke leather steering wheel, and a radio-ready console. The Passion, starts at $13,590 and includes a panorama roof, alloy wheels, A/C, 3-spoke leather sports steering wheel with gear shift paddles, PW, PL, electrically heated power side mirrors, and an AM/FM radio with CD player. The Passion Cabrio convertible starts at $16,590. A fully automatic soft top and a premium sound system with an in-dash MP3 compatible 6-CD changer plus all the std. equipment included with the Pure and the Passion. All models will be equipped with the 1-liter, 3-cylinder, 71-HP engine and front and side air bags as standard.

An optional “Comfort package” for the Passion and Passion Cabrio includes heated leather seats, electric power steering, rain/light sensors and auto-off headlamps with exit delay goes for an additional $850.

Although no information has been released wrt the destination charge, SMART has stated the destination charge will be comparable to that from Honda or Toyota and that all 72 dealerships will be open in time for the first retail SMART’s to be received.

Once again, why bother for that price when something comparable or cheaper will be more practical with better FE and range?

I WANT to like the Smart, but I can't find a good reason to??

I remember seeing these things in England and was impressed by one fact. Instead of parallel parking, they could pull nose first into the space & not stick out any further than other cars (its only as long as others were wide). If I was a tight city dweller I would want one of these, but I still don't see it as a big seller in the US, but I certainly wish them luck.

It is an excellent city car. I saw them all over Italy. They seemed very practical there. Will they come out with the Smart For Four? I saw those too.

We also saw a lot of them in Positano, a small south coast town with lots of tourism. It is an hour and half from Naples. The place also caters to the upper class (we saw lots of bigger luxury cars like beemers and SUV), so it would seem even the italians who could afford a more expensive and luxury car, but the Smarts and use them out side the big cities.

Anyways, seeing them in Italy changed my perception. I think they could be a really good little, commuter car.

I saw them in Italy as well and really enjoyed seeing them parked perpendicular to the curb.

But if I lived in a city in Italy I'm not sure I'd buy one. Their strong suit there seems to be parkability in an urban setting. But in an urban setting bicycles and scooters are even more parkable (and popular in Europe), plus there is good public transit (which one can extend by bringing along a folding bicycle). So if I lived in a city in Italy I imagine I'd be using a car mainly for trips out of the city to suburban and rural (vacation?) areas. I gather that many other small cars there get about the same FE and offer a lot more interior room.

For the US its fuel economy is again a question, and (depending on the city) its extreme parkability might or might not be a plus. And price vs other small cars is also a question. Heavily in its favor in the US is its styling: fashion weighs heavily here in car purchase decisions.

I sure hope it does well.

Hi All:

___The parkability is certainly a plus but even in an inner city environment here in the US, a spot is a spot is a spot. Parking garages are built for full sized vehicles as well.

___The pricing for the middle equipped Passion is pushing into the Corolla CE territory without the ability to load one up (cargo, people or amenities) like an LE for example.

___About the Smart’s FE? I keep hearing about the 40/40 stuff but who knows? A 71 HP ICE running an under 1,800 # vehicle should do far better then 40/40. When I spoke with the Smart media rep this morning, he could not give me any details on its rated FE, the emission ratings or even the destination charge :(

___Good Luck

___Wayne

Makes for a good commuter car more than anything else.

I agree, if it does not get get more than say 50-60mpg, I will be disappointed.

But Chrysler must realize the competition? They cannot sell the amount of smart they hope on style and semi-affordibility.

They want to sell like 40,000 a year in the US.

One site I looked at had an article that made it sound like they were going to sell themselves. They would not need much, like incentives and low financing, to get people to the lots and into the cars.

Maybe they are dreaming a little?

I always thought of the Smart as a cool idea but way too expensive. There's a couple of other cars sold in Europe that are not much bigger (the WV Fox, Renault Twingo, Toyota Aygo, Peugeot 1007, etc.) but are much much cheaper. I think a 40 to 45 MPG is typical for most drivers here in Europe, but keep in mind that these cars are mostly used for short commutes in cities and are designed with this in mind. The aerodynamics are not great, and I doubt the gearing is ideal for highway travel either. 40 MPG in the city for a normal driver isn't even so bad...

psic, 40mpg in the city may not be so bad, but I do that in my car right NOW. There is no comparison in practicality between my car and a SMART car.

If it got something more in the range of 60+ I'd start getting interested. At that level I would expect it could be hypermiled into the 80mpg range and possibly higher with a good driver... If it is only going to be in the 40mpg range that isn't even close to high enough to tempt me with giving up the space I have. My interest in such a vehicle is purely based in the draw of a cheap, high mileage vehicle for just commuting with -- and the SMART has neither of those characteristics that I can see so far??

1st - all parking spaces are *not* equal. Watch an Expedition or Escalade pass on spots sometime. The Four Two can park in the space of two motorcycles. (In many cities, they are allowed to do just that.) It'll also save gas *NOT* looking for a spot.

2nd - Very Light, 1 L 3 Cyl, this should be a city hypermilers dream. I've lost track, is it coming to the US with auto stop/start?

-mr. bill

Hi Bill:

___The Smart Fourtwo CDI, BEV, PHEV or HEV light is not scheduled for our shores just yet :(

___Good Luck

___Wayne

Hi, Bill! As far as I know it is not going to have auto start/stop. The last I heard it would only get about 40mpg and will be using a modified (and very dirty!!!) gasoline motorcycle engine made by Yamaha (I think!!). I'm extremely unimpressed with something that light weight only managing 40mpg when I can pull that in my car almost without thinking anymore and with better emissions (if the above is correct).

The parking is a nice plus, but not when I can get all the other "benefits" for less money and end up with more car.

EDIT: Wayne, you beat me to it!!

Hi Sean:

___Yeah, sometimes that happens ;)

___IIRC, the new 1.0L motor will be Mitsubishi’s and it will have to at least meet Tier II/Bin5 or it will not be able to be sold here in the US. I will look up the ICE manufacturer in a bit.

___Good Luck

___Wayne

Hi All:

___Doing a bit of searching and see the Euro Smart Fortwo w/ the same 1.0L with 71 HP achieves 4.7 l/100 km (50 mpg US) combined on the European urban/extra urban test cycles. I think SMART was pushing out shorter and more conservative numbers then we were led to believe all these many months even from the new 08 EPA specs if the Euro version is pulling that combined on their own? Also, the Special edition SMART Fortwo out of Europe is the one that appears headed our way?

“The "edition limited one" is powered by a three-cylinder 52 kW (71 bhp) petrol engine. Interior features include air conditioning, heated seats and a radio.

The special model boasts special exclusive cognac brown used-look nappa leather upholstery which is also featured on the three-spoke sports steering wheel (incl. steering wheel gearshift) and the gear knob. The velour floor mats also have a leather trim.”

___The MHD (micro-hybrid drive) will be available in Europe but not here by the end of the year. With the CDI, the darn thing is almost a 75 mpg car! Again, no way it will make it here with Euro IV at best. The 1.0L in the Smart Fourtwo coming here is a Mitsubishi if that helps as well.

___Good Luck

___Wayne

My mother wants a Smart real bad. Ive asked her to try and hold off and see if a oil burner will come here.

Ive seen two Smarts here in Tulsa. They are cute as hell in person. Even a tad feisty looking. :)

Hm. 50 is better... though I'd still expect more from something that lightweight. Am I just expecting too much??

What I was really hoping for when I first heard of the SMART was a 60+mpg machine for about $8k. All I wanted was a stripped down commuter car I could have as a second vehicle that wouldn't take much space in the garage.

Silly, huh? :o

Thanks for the extra info, Wayne!

growing converns on environment, increased congestions and foreign oil.. really cant find another reason to drive one? Always turn heads when you drive it, fun to drive, and cheapest convertible on the market.
still having trouble finding reasons to buy?

growing converns on environment, increased congestions and foreign oil.. really cant find another reason to drive one? Always turn heads when you drive it, fun to drive, and cheapest convertible on the market.
still having trouble finding reasons to buy?

Um, perhaps you haven't read the preceding posts? Or maybe noticed the numbers I already get out of my current car -- which happens to be paid off?

Well, they're sure catching on here. I see one on the road every few days now. Saw one parked in my own neighborhood the other night. I also work about a mile from a Smart dealership, and it looks like a third dealership is about to open locally.

As for space-is-a-space, that's true in many places here, but not universally so. In downtown Portland the boundaries of on-street parking spaces are marked off with pavement stripes. Even though you could often squeeze a Smart in between two other spaces, you'd get a ticket for doing it.

On the other hand, in crowded Northwest Portland (and also numerous other popular boulevards in other parts of town), on-street parking is a highly competitive free-for-all. A space is anywhere you can physically squeeze your car and there isn't a yellow stripe on the curb. I frequently pass up spaces in NW that my Subaru can't fit into (that's where I miss my Civics), and end up walking 5-10 extra blocks as a result. A Smart would have it made in that part of town.

psic, 40mpg in the city may not be so bad, but I do that in my car right NOW. There is no comparison in practicality between my car and a SMART car.


I said normal driver :)

I'm also getting around 40 MPG in the city with a car not much smaller than yours. Though according to Wayne's numbers, it should do at least 50 MPG, though that could be increased above 65 with the right driver.

But as I said before, I think it's overpriced and a Civic or something similar is just a better deal, all things considered.

I said normal driver :)


Oops, missed that bit. :o


But as I said before, I think it's overpriced and a Civic or something similar is just a better deal, all things considered.

We're on the same page. :) If the stated price was cut in half and the stated mileage was increased by 50%, though... ;)

Or putting a little electric bike motor into it? (or a cage of gerbils?) LOL!
If they'd do that give it a 50 mile range and sell it for $4000, I think it would be worth my while to investigate further.

--des

Oops, missed that bit. :o



We're on the same page. :) If the stated price was cut in half and the stated mileage was increased by 50%, though... ;)