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I usually don't take the interstate home, because I've found the iFCD keeps me at a steady speed at about 55mpg on the display. Since I can do better than that on the secondary highways, I generally eschew the superslab (besides, it's a tollway - no sense paying for worse FE, right ? :p

However, I had to work late tonight, and found myself a bit south of my workplace, and anxious to get home for dinner. So I broke down and took the tollway.

I had had the averaging display up to 58 or so for about 15mi of 30-40mph road, and decided to reset the tripmeter to see what I'd get doing, say, 65mph on the tollway. Rush hour was about over, and I remembered in the Accord, there seemed to be certain ranges where FE was better (48, 58, 68). So I figured I'd play a bit, since the road would be more open than in rush hour.

As I merged on, I noticed an 18-wheeler that seemed to be right about my rate of speed. "What the hell", I thought..."let me see if I can draft him a little bit, and see what happens".

Now drafting is something I didn't like much in the Accord - to maintain the position requires more play w/ the go pedal, and in the Accord, that means firing up all 6 cylinders back and forth. Plus, I had an incident with a closer draft where I had some road debris kicked up on the front end - no real damage, thanks to the 3M bra, but my license plate frame was definitely worse for wear.

As I followed in a distance straight draft @ about 64mph, I noticed that he was driving with load. Perfect. I also noticed that I was able to maintain about 65mpg on the iFCD without him, and with him...oh, the glory! 80mpg could be held for some decent periods, and peaks of 90+. I only hoped that he'd stay on the interstate until I exited.

About 4mi short of my exit (~ 20mi travelled), I reached 67.1mpg, and seriously considered following him to see if I could reach the magic 70 that Wayne's been wanting to see. But alas, I had no camera with me, and to be honest, hunger did get the best of me. I had dropped down to 66.x when I got off the highway - "maybe I can maintain or raise this", I thought. Sadly, I could not, and by the time I got home, had dropped to 64.9mpg for the segment (35-38mi; it's still on the tripmeter). As I was on the secondary highway, I noticed some flags blowing at a service station, and realized that I had had a tailwind on the interstate, probably in the range of 15-20mph.

Oh, well...at least my tank is sitting at about 57.8mpg / 140mi travelled. :) If I only used this car to commute with, I'd break 60mpg on a tank pretty easily this time of year, I think. I'm disappointed now if I don't see a '6' as the leading digits indicator after I finish a commute out to work :eek:

Way to go! I too would love to see the magical 70, even if it was with nature's assistance.

Getting 60's in a car the size of your Civic is pretty amazing if you ask me. It would be hard for me to believe it had I not test driven on myself.

Yes, there was a decent tailwind tonight. Winds coming from the south which helped me on my northbound commute home. I was very happy to walk out the door from work and feel the wind in my face. I knew that would mean some sweet numbers.

How long will you be able to keep those 6x's coming?

Mark;
Congrat's on the FE Numbers.:)

milk that civic!

Way to go!

I have to drive the Accord today. :(

will try and keep my sprits up. AAA mpg

How long will you be able to keep those 6x's coming?

Pretty much as long as weather allows. When it gets hot, I do use A/C - I usually keep the cabin temp about 72-74 in the summer, depending on passengers. But as long as I can keep that A/C off, I will. Got 62.x and 64.7 for the last two days' morning commutes, so I think I can get 6x.x with some regularity now, barring bad traffic / weather. I still have < 5K miles on the car, and running Honda 0W-20 in the crankcase with a shot of Valvoline Synthetic Oil Treatment (replaced factory fill a couple hundred miles ago, and won't switch to Synoil until the OLI drops to 15% - it's at 50% now). So I still have a couple of potential gains available to me.

To be honest, unless I get another favorable highway event like last night, I don't know if I can hit 70 using 'conventional' hypermiling techniques. I also need to remember to get some sort of recording device (cheap disposable digicam ? ), because I don't want to leave my good one in the car and subject it to temp extremes. I don't have a camera phone, so that's out (might change in a couple of months, after I lose my company-provided Nextel).

Tank is sitting at 57.5 (which should normally represent about 59.0 when hand calc'd)

Appreciate everyone's kind words of encouragement - just trying to relay potential, since not many on the other site seem to care too much about pushing capabilities (and some would say that I don't, either, given that I don't really P&G or FAS the car). But we all do what we're comfy with. Hopefully, I don't come across as hypocritical. :(

Pretty much as long as weather allows. When it gets hot, I do use A/C - I usually keep the cabin temp about 72-74 in the summer, depending on passengers. But as long as I can keep that A/C off, I will. Got 62.x and 64.7 for the last two days' morning commutes, so I think I can get 6x.x with some regularity now, barring bad traffic / weather. I still have < 5K miles on the car, and running Honda 0W-20 in the crankcase with a shot of Valvoline Synthetic Oil Treatment (replaced factory fill a couple hundred miles ago, and won't switch to Synoil until the OLI drops to 15% - it's at 50% now). So I still have a couple of potential gains available to me.

To be honest, unless I get another favorable highway event like last night, I don't know if I can hit 70 using 'conventional' hypermiling techniques. I also need to remember to get some sort of recording device (cheap disposable digicam ? ), because I don't want to leave my good one in the car and subject it to temp extremes. I don't have a camera phone, so that's out (might change in a couple of months, after I lose my company-provided Nextel).

Tank is sitting at 57.5 (which should normally represent about 59.0 when hand calc'd)

Appreciate everyone's kind words of encouragement - just trying to relay potential, since not many on the other site seem to care too much about pushing capabilities (and some would say that I don't, either, given that I don't really P&G or FAS the car). But we all do what we're comfy with. Hopefully, I don't come across as hypocritical. :(
Green&Blue;

Your Words: But we all do what we're comfy with. Hopefully, I don't come across as hypocritical.

I say as you do, Do what your comfortable with, I do and will continue to.

Have a Nice-Day. :)

Hi Mark:

___Boy is great to hear of someone pushing the envelope of the HCH-II. The last time I checked GH, those that had the opportunity appeared to simply stop? I even saw a post by Kenny a while back discussing some disappointment? Now with what you are beginning to see, I cannot wait to hear of future segments although if you have to use A/C in a month or two, that is going to murder her :( Terry has spoke of the Electric A/C as being an excellent addition and I am very interested in its current draw measured via SoC drop over your std. commute. Because of the HCH-II’s native EV/Glide mode into AS, a full blown FAS is not really needed although you would gain some distance on the free coast down … I know you already know all about that but I was pointing out the obvious for the non-HCH owners knowledge base.

___Good Luck and congrats!

___Wayne

Hi Mark:

___Boy is great to hear of someone pushing the envelope of the HCH-II. The last time I checked GH, those that had the opportunity appeared to simply stop? I even saw a post by Kenny a while back discussing some disappointment? Now with what you are beginning to see, I cannot wait to hear of future segments although if you have to use A/C in a month or two, that is going to murder her :( Terry has spoke of the Electric A/C as being an excellent addition and I am very interested in its current draw measured via SoC drop over your std. commute. Because of the HCH-II’s native EV/Glide mode into AS, a full blown FAS is not really needed although you would gain some distance on the free coast down … I know you already know all about that but I was pointing out the obvious for the non-HCH owners knowledge base.
Thanks, Wayne. BTW, I was anticipating a good segment yesterday with light Good Friday traffic, and I got it - 68.7mpg (62.1 on the trip home). Again, I forgot the camera. I've got to get a camera phone or something :)

It's funny you mention Kenny...his response to my reply to Hot_Georgia's post made me want to fire off quite the testy reply (rare for me, as those who read my posts may realize). But at this point, if I'm getting summarily dismissed by *other* hypermilers on 'the other site', I think it's time I stopped posting there, as well. People ask for information - I give it (fairly) objectively and fact-based, and then I'm regarded as either clueless, a crackpot, or a liar. I don't need that aggrevation, thank you.

I actually *did* have the A/C on in the afternoon commute for the last two days, at least to cool down the car. BTW, I posted too low a setting - I actually keep the car between 76-78 - not because of FE (ok, sorta :) but because that's my true comfort zone right now.

My observations of A/C use so far ?
- It makes a major hit under accelleration load (to be expected with a 1.3L engine, I guess), and it takes longer to get to / won't allow the same 'lean burn' mode as w/o it.
- The SoC does seem to be at the upper range more. I've held 7/8 bars of charge longer than I normally do, and I don't see it drain down past 6/8, in the last 24hrs. So your post brought something to mind - the car is charging *more*, because of the A/C usage. I did not anticipate that, and I thank you for bringing it up.

BTW, to clarify - the A/C isn't 'purely' electric - it's the same 'dual-scroll' system as with the Accord, as I just walked down to the garage and peeked under the hood to make absolutely sure before I posted this. The same tell-tale accessory belt going to the compressor is there. What I did notice was different was there was no orange-colored cable shrouding going to the compressor, as with the Accord.

As I stated, I did get over 60 mpg with A/C taking I-94 from All-Day Rd ;) to Grand (stopped at Rosen for a car wash and to check on something w/ my salesperson). Saw my AH *still* sitting on their lot (it's at the front entrance to the lot) - they can't sell it, and other AH owners who have come in looking to trade are going to get soaked because of it. Another reason (of many) why I chose to trade early - I kinda knew that would happen. :eek:

Hi Mark:

___Reading and watching the vid of the HCH-II’s A/C compressor over at Honda News a few months ago, it will stay in Electric mode unless you run her Climate Control in MAX. At that point, the dual mode takes over and ICE-On operation is a must. I did not intend to convey it is an all-Electric unit … I will have to look it up again to be sure of the MAX A/C dropping her back to the electro-mechanical drive unit but it was the electric operation I was interested in. It sounds as if it’s doing a great job in your HCH running the Auto-Climate at a reasonable temp!

___I had to go back and read the Hot_Georgia_2004, Kenny, and yourself thread as I was talking about a thread that Kenny posted in when he first picked up his HCH-II and was a bit concerned with his FE. Kenny was a bit over the top in Hot_Georgia’s thread imho. 60 mpg while cruising at 55 in an 04 is easy given its lean-burn. His statement about not paying attention just means he was paying attention with his eyes to traffic around him as in DWB and possibly DWL if needed. I remember the first time I hit lean-burn in Tom’s CVT and saw a locked up 80 + mpg while cruising down the highway at 50 - 55 mph. I was shocked! A 59.1 lmpg in warmer temps would be nothing for the HCH-I but lean-burn in the HCH-II appears not to be in the cards from everything I have read and my short time behind the wheel? At 55 mph, I saw a glimpse of 75 mpg’s but not quite the 80 + in Tom’s HCH-I? Then again, it was in the high 30’s/low 40’s in a brand new and ill-setup HCH-II? What do you see today on the iFCD at 55 mph and no wind out on I-94/294?

___In either case, that GH thread makes me want to add a few comments of my own to dissuade Kenny from saying his LMPG was effortless. It may in fact be effortless because he is at just 75 - 85% of its daily potential in his locale imho. Tom’s HCH w/ CVT will be a great test mule to find out what it is actually worth when all the stops are pulled (“Tbaleno takes the gloves off”) as well as just driving it back and forth to work if you know what I mean ;)

___Good Luck

___Wayne

Can someone explain a bit more about "lean burn"? I googled it and it didn't sound like something you could "achieve" by driving a certain way but the engine had to be inherently designed that way. Am I off base?

Also I thought the two posters in the referenced thread actually seemed to be of the same mind--that neither one was using fancy "tricks", just driving efficiently and didn't really see a disagreement. Again I could be reading things wrong. Anyway, my congrats to G&B--this is wonderful to see how far he can push it! Gives me hope.

lean burn is something designed into a car. What we talk about is entering into and maintaining the lean burn mode of the car.

Hi Tarabell:

___About the best place to find info on Lean-burn is from the Insight Central’s Encyclopedia / Lean-burn 02 sensor (http://www.insightcentral.net/encyclopedia/enlaf.html).

The Insight uses a LAF (Linear Air-Fuel) sensor for the primary oxygen sensor that is capable of measuring air-fuel ratios as lean as 23:1. This allows the ECM to maintain precise control over the mixture during both normal and lean burn conditions. (Note that lean burn is only used in the 5-speed version of the Insight.)

The engine's LAF Sensor is designed to detect air-fuel ratios as lean as 25:1. The fuel-injection Electronic Control Module uses this data, along with engine rpm, crankshaft angle, throttle angle, car mass, coolant temperature and valve position, to maintain a lean air-fuel ratio below 2500-3200 rpm (depending on throttle position and engine load).

The VTEC-E engine can burn such a lean mixture partly because of a strong air-fuel swirl created in the combustion chamber, created by the mixture's entry through only one of two intake valves during low-rpm operation. Although the overall air-fuel mixture is lean, optimized injection timing, along with the vortex, creates a "stratified" charge - the air-fuel ratio is richer near the spark plug and leaner toward the combustion chamber periphery. The richer mixture ignites more readily and creates a fast-burning, stable flame that promotes more complete combustion.
___With a leanburn ICE, what you see at a low load once warm-up is complete and in temps above 40 degrees F unless WAI (Warm Air Intake) mods are applied (I believe this temp is Insight and HCH-I specific) is a jump of 10 - 25 mpg’s in the iFCD. I did not see the jump in the HCH-II I test drove but it was a bit to cold and in a brand new HCH-II. When Tom and I took his HCH-I out for a day of P&G experimentation last year, we maintained > 150 miles of Lean-burn enabled cruise while out on the Chicago Interstates in warmer temps. This included no other techniques other then DWL and DWB. Tom said, “no, no, no” to anything else ;) The results included 72.x mpg out and 78.x mpg back over ~ 150 miles of Chicago and US Interstate with both of us in his car. Although this thread has nothing to do with P&G, while out on the rural road to come up with an exacting repetitive pattern and then again through the Chicago arterial’s when coming home, the numbers seen where much - much higher!

___The reason I worded the reply above as I did is because a Lean-burn capable CVT or MT based HCH-I exactly like the one Kenny owns can easily achieve a 59.x lmpg in warmer temps while out on the highway. This is very similar to his commute given the iFCD’s camps at 80 mpg for as long as you want while cruising at low loads with the CVT locked in its highest ratio. Add in a few hypermiling techniques and an HCH-I’s FE over a similar commute can be maintained around 80 mpg all summer long …

___Where the HCH-II runs out of steam is still up in the air but by all accounts, Mark is now in the driver’s seat when it comes to pushing the HCH-II’s envelope. I was not really expecting this of him early on but I am certainly glad to see it!

___Good Luck

___Wayne