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I saw a reference to this place in another group and thought I would register. Since high mpg is my main hobby, I need to go to as many groups as I can to get "MORE INPUT!" :D Some people think I need professional help since mpg is my main hobby but I just smile at them when I drive by the gas station and see them there filling up; again.

Welcome Larry! Lots of good experience here.

Yeah. This site seems to start where EPA ends. I feel ashamed some times at my mileage compared to a lot of the members here. Lots of great information here, and a great community.

Welcome to the site.

I feel ashamed some times at my mileage compared to a lot of the members here.

Tom,
It's OK with me if you report your results in decibels. :D

Wecome to CleanMPG!

diamondlarry
Junior Member

Welcome to the FE Site for those that strive to be better, do better, and for the most part {Are-Better-With FE}. :D

Welcome: :)

Hi! It's great to see more folks showing up who are interested in getting maximum fuel efficiency out of conventional vehicles. I've read that those Saturns have all kinds of potential. Since you seem to have been at this for a while, I look forward to hearing about your experiences and what you've learned along the way.

I haven't been at it too long with the Saturn but, the Saturn is the one I've done the most experimenting on. I'm about to swap my cylinder head with one that has had some interesting things done to it such as, groves in the combustion chamber(Somander Singh), grooves cut into the back of the intake valves, and the intake ports reshaped so that the intake velocity is significantly increased. The compression ratio will be raised from the stock 9.5:1 up to 10.5:1 or higher. I'm not doing the machine work nor do I fully understand all of it so I may not be able to answer too many questions. The whole process is being documented on mpgresearch.com. Later this summer we will be adding a Megasquirt to manage the fuel. We're leaving the ignition timing up to the stock ECU for now. I've been told that with these two mods that the car may get 80mpg, with my wife driving it. I sure hope that's true because that means I would get quite a bit more. :D

its good to see you here larry

I haven't been at it too long with the Saturn but, the Saturn is the one I've done the most experimenting on. I'm about to swap my cylinder head with one that has had some interesting things done to it such as, groves in the combustion chamber(Somander Singh), grooves cut into the back of the intake valves, and the intake ports reshaped so that the intake velocity is significantly increased. The compression ratio will be raised from the stock 9.5:1 up to 10.5:1 or higher. I'm not doing the machine work nor do I fully understand all of it so I may not be able to answer too many questions. The whole process is being documented on mpgresearch.com. Later this summer we will be adding a Megasquirt to manage the fuel. We're leaving the ignition timing up to the stock ECU for now. I've been told that with these two mods that the car may get 80mpg, with my wife driving it. I sure hope that's true because that means I would get quite a bit more. :D
Well, this is going to be interesting. I and the rest of the crew here will want to see a pic or pics of these 80 MPG Segments when they start taking place so we can Post them here for one and all to see. :)

Hi Larry:

___Welcome to CleanMPG as it sounds like you are a perfect candidate for hypermiling!

___Your SL 5-speed is EPA rated at 28/40 if it’s the SOHC based I4 and I can see a doable 55 + lmpg just by driving it properly. A 65 mpg segment here and there should not be out of the question either … How are you doing with it today as that is where we may be able to help? I have read of Singh’s ideas on his website and in the press but until we see real world and working automobiles w/ his tech in the valve intakes on the road, we can only go by what has been posted on the net. I would be very leery about claims for 80 mpg but I would like you to learn to increase far beyond what you may have seen to date so as to not proclaim that the internal mods were a key to 60 mpg’s or similar. Many of us here at CleanMPG have seen this time and again: I increased my FE by 22%, 33%, 41%, etc. w/ this or that mod and there are those of us simply shake our heads and say I wonder why such low improvement’s over and above the EPA? Just driving with FE in mind can easily blow through those %’s. Anyway, follow the many threads about increasing your own FE without the heavy internal mods and then you will have a very solid basis for what the Singh process is worth or not afterwards …

___On a side note, I thought I read of somebody replacing the SL’s I4 w/ a Yanmar 25 HP lawn diesel in a Saturn a few years ago and nailed down a 95 + mpg segment. It wasn’t that impressive given where a std. hybrid can go today but it was an interesting read. I wish I had the link. Hopefully you can help with that news story?

___Good Luck

___Wayne

Your SL 5-speed is EPA rated at 28/40 if it’s the SOHC based I4 and I can see a doable 55 + lmpg just by driving it properly. A 65 mpg segment here and there should not be out of the question either … How are you doing with it today as that is where we may be able to help?

Yes, it is a SOHC I4. Last July 23 I took a trip from Wakarusa, IN to Kankakee. IL and managed 52.2 mpg according to my Scanguage on the way there. On the trip home, the Scanguage registered 52.0. With the driving that I had done while in town for the day, the whole trip averaged just over 48mpg. On March 11th of this year I went on a run around a loop I use regulary to compare my odometer with Google Earth measurements. My trip length according to Google was 39.76 miles. The fuel used was .761 gallons. I realize that short trips like this are not the ideal length but I think it gives a good idea of what's possible. I did not do any engine off coasting with this segment either. My car does not have power steering so I quite often turn the engine off then turn the key back on so my mileage will register on the odometer. Last summer/fall I acheived just over 71mpg on an 8 mile trip by getting up to 50mph and coasting with the engine off down to 30mph then putting the car in gear, re-starting and speeding back up to 50 again. I was able to duplicate that mileage on the return trip home. Again, short trips are not ideal but I noticed that the further into the trip I went the more the FE went up. It seems quite possible that FE may have been higher with a longer trip. Also, my method would not work/be practical if there was much if any traffic. I did this on rural country roads.
As for 80mpg I'm not going to count on it but if it happens I will be very pleasantly surprised!:D I'm not sure I mentioned this before but my progress will be tracked on mpgresearch.com and fueleconomytips.com. so it will be documented. It was also suggested that I contact a local reporter and see if he would agree to go on a series of rides at various points in the process to further document the process. I may want to start looking for a reporter soon as the head swap should be taking place in the next month or so when the head work is complete. I will willingly take suggestions on how to accurately document these things. If everything works out I would like to share as much as I can.
I'll see what I can find with the Saturn/diesel conversion. Sounds very interesting. Sorry if this was a bit rambling but this kind of thing is exciting to me. :)

Hi Larry:

___Great to hear you are using some of the techniques we use but you really have to stabilize your FE so as to know what a new technique or mod is worth. Your lmpg should be in the 50 - 55 mpg range. We are speaking about lifetime mpg (lmpg), not a short or lengthy segment or tank. Until you have stabilized your FE up or around a peak using std. Hypermiling techniques, you really will not know what a new mod or technique is really worth.

___Do you have tank data from the time you purchased her to today? If you do, go ahead and post away. The DBase is almost ready and we will be looking forward to your input. Getting reporters involved when many here can push out 70 + mpg tanks in larger and far less fuel efficient - non-hybrid’s seems like a waste of everyone’s time? A quick look through the gallery, the forums, and even the CleanMPG’s header pic’s should give you an idea as to what many here have already experienced. Again, stabilize at or around your peak FE with documentation and then see what the mods are worth. Right now, you are nowhere near ready to get outsider’s involved other then to display your enthusiasm ;)

___Good Luck

___Wayne

___Do you have tank data from the time you purchased her to today? If you do, go ahead and post away. The DBase is almost ready and we will be looking forward to your input.

Unfortunately, I don't have records. I have calculated the mileage of every tank since I owned it but never recorded it on a regualr basis until this past November. I have been recording my information at gassavers.com and will gladly transfer everything I have when your Dbase is ready just let me know when that is and how to go about it. Since I started recording on 11/03/2005, my running average is 39.88. The first entry was 41.23. I expect that to go up once we get summer blend fuel back and temps raise to summer levels. Thanks for the advice so far. What I don't know yetI'm willing to learn.

Hi Larry:

___Hey, from November to today is a great start for new tanks! Just keep recording them and within a few weeks, we will have you busting 50 + tanks on a regular basis … That is if anyone of us have anything to say about it ;)

___What I would like you to do as a little home work is look over both Brick and Phil’s posts here from day 1 through this past week or so. Those 2 members have already been through our own brand of basic “Hypermiling boot camp” and are just about ready to graduate with valedictorian honors :D

___As for your SL’s setup, what tires is it shod with, what are there pressure’s, what kind of oil are you using, and how much (quantity)?

___Good Luck

___Wayne

As for your SL’s setup, what tires is it shod with, what are there pressure’s, what kind of oil are you using, and how much (quantity)?

I have Goodyear Assurance Comfortread 185-75-14's which are 1 size over stock. They are rated for a max of 44psi and I have had 50-55psi in them for over a year now with no handling problems or unusual wear problems.
As for oil, the car uses oil so I'm using Havoline 5W-30 dino juice. I'm not exactly sure why you asked about how much oil but, since it uses oil, I keep it topped off. I'm hoping that the headswap will take care of the oil use when I get new valve seals. I have run Amsoil 0W-30 before but it was kind of hard to afford even with my preferred customer discount.
I will go through the past posts and find everything from Brick and Phil. If you don't see me post for awhile it'll be because I'm busy with basic training. :)

nice going over sidewall limit at least you beat me in that area. Mine are rated 51 psi and i didn't go over... as for oil i took wayne's advice and filled between the MAX and MIN lines. Its so that you get less friction in the low revs... small difference but a difference nevertheless espically if you never take it over 3000 rpm.

i got the mobil 1 0-20w juice but i have no oil change experience nor tools so that has to wait till i get more confident in my mechanical abilities...


at the end its all in the left foot, right hand and state of mind to achieve untouchable mileage ;)

Definitely, it's all about the driver. Attention to detail makes all the difference between normal fuel economy and outstanding fuel economy. I have to agree with Wayne about stabilizing your fuel economy so that you have a really good baseline before you make major mechanical mods to your car. It is likely that any gains you will see from the head swap will be in about the same range that can be attained from refining your technique. Finding the car's real ceiling and learning to keep it there is the only way to keep those gains from getting lost in the noise. Wayne told me the same thing he's telling you when I wanted to test a fuel additive, and I'm glad I held off! I'm working my way down the learning curve so my numbers have gotten really high in some conditions, not as high in conditions that I haven't quite figured out yet. One day I hope to have the technique nailed down so that I can then test additives and mods reliably.

Sounds like you're off to a heck of a start already. I look forward to seeing some crazy numbers once the dbase gets running!

I have a question. Please forgive me if it sounds like a noobie question but, it is. :) What does FAS stand for? Also, another cool thing about my car I forgot to mention is: no power steering.

Forced Auto Stop. It just means putting the car in neutral and killing the engine to coast. It's our way of imitating what hybrids can do automatically.

Ok, that's what I do a lot of already. I've gotten to where I can re-start by popping the clutch and you can't even feel it. On the trip to taking my wife to work(5.83 miles), I have been able to coast with the engine off for as much as 2.1 miles. This all depends on traffic and lights. The two lights I encounter can't be timed because they are traffic regulated. The only thing I can do is watch for traffic that may be coming up to the light from the side street. One of the coasting segments can be as high as 1.1 miles when the light cooperates. This 1.1 miles includes a left turn off the state highway, a right turn onto a side street, a right turn into the parking lot and past the door and a u-turn to head back toward the street before stopping to let my wife out. Now, back to boot camp! :D

On the trip to taking my wife to work(5.83 miles), I have been able to coast with the engine off for as much as 2.1 miles.

That number should be 2.8 miles with the engine off. I checked today and found that I was leaving out .7 miles of coasting in one of the county road sections.

Welcome

Happy FAS to you. And a merry load. :)

psy