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HONDA FIT
Four-door hatchback, on sale in the spring, two trim levels, Fit and Fit Sport, safety comes standard, ABS, dual front, front-seat side, and side curtain air bags included, 109-hp VTEC four-cyclinder engine, five-speed stick standard, five-speed auto optional, called in from Japan, where it's been on sale since 2001.
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Honda's entry into the suddenly hot minicar segment includes conveniences such as air-conditioning and power windows, mirrors, and locks. It's small and cheap, with a base price pegged between $13,000 and $14,000.

AUTOMOBILE MARCH 2006

Terry

Having sat in one it reminds me of a geo metro. Not much difference between the Fit and the Toyota Yaris. Though I do give the edge to the Fit. I also believe it has nice folding seats which give you lots of cargo space if you aren't carrying passengers. Now if they could only get decent mileage and if they would find a way of shoving on a hybrid system without taking away any of the cargo space I think it would be a winner.

Having sat in one it reminds me of a geo metro. Not much difference between the Fit and the Toyota Yaris. Though I do give the edge to the Fit. I also believe it has nice folding seats which give you lots of cargo space if you aren't carrying passengers. Now if they could only get decent mileage and if they would find a way of shoving on a hybrid system without taking away any of the cargo space I think it would be a winner.
Yeah;
Most things that I have read have poined out. Why not spend the extra money and go for the 2006 HCH II and get the FE and all the comfort of a much more modern and comfortable vehicle.

I guess we shall see what the Public will do.

Terry

Well, the $8,000 premium to go to the HCH II could be a deterant for a lot of people ;) $8,000 will buy an awful lot of gas.

Well, the $8,000 premium to go to the HCH II could be a deterant for a lot of people ;) $8,000 will buy an awful lot of gas.
Yeah;
And not only will it buy alot of Fuel, but another point that was brought up was. The Fit is a great around town driver because it will fit (Play-On-Words) almost in any parking place. So I bet alot of people that run errands in the city will jump on it for ease of use and it does have all the Safety airbags.

Terry

Compared to a Prius you get a lot of bang for the buck with the saftey equipment. Your talking a few extra $K to get it on the prius.

HONDA FIT
Four-door hatchback, on sale in the spring, two trim levels, Fit and Fit Sport, safety comes standard, ABS, dual front, front-seat side, and side curtain air bags included, 109-hp VTEC four-cyclinder engine, five-speed stick standard, five-speed auto optional, called in from Japan, where it's been on sale since 2001.
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Honda's entry into the suddenly hot minicar segment includes conveniences such as air-conditioning and power windows, mirrors, and locks. It's small and cheap, with a base price pegged between $13,000 and $14,000.

AUTOMOBILE MARCH 2006

Terry

OK, so what are the EPA Estimates?

Hello;

You ask on this Site and you shall receive the (Info) :rolleyes:

{The Honda Fit promises fuel economy up to 38 m.p.g. in highway driving. Nissan says the Versa will get a combined 38 m.p.g. And Toyota said the Yaris with a manual transmission will be rated at 40 m.p.g. on the highway.}

See: Small cars are back in action (Link)
>>>>http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060216/BUSINESS01/602160561

HTH;

Terry

I guess I'm a bit dissapointed. Whatever happened to the Civic VX hatchback? 48 City, 55 Highway. Now that is a true hypermilers car! Cheap, simple and enough room for four. Some day I plan on transplanting a VX engine (D15Z1 VTEC-economy) into the del Sol. 70 MPG for sure!

Yes, I am a nut! :o

I guess I'm a bit dissapointed. Whatever happened to the Civic VX hatchback? 48 City, 55 Highway. Now that is a true hypermilers car! Cheap, simple and enough room for four. Some day I plan on transplanting a VX engine (D15Z1 VTEC-economy) into the del Sol. 70 MPG for sure!

Yes, I am a nut! :o
Yeah;
But a very fun nut. :D

It is kinda interesting that the new vehicles that one would almost certainly think would get like the most FE don't. They do alright but not just terrific.

Terry

Hi Dan and Tiger:

___The following info might be more to your liking?

2007 Honda Fit//Fit Sport

Engineering:

Engine Type: In-Line 4-Cylinder
Engine Block/Cylinder Head: Aluminum-Alloy
Displacement (cc): 1497
Horsepower @ rpm (SAE net, Rev 8/04): 109 @ 5800
Torque (lb.-ft. @ rpm): 105 @ 4800
Redline (rpm): 6300
Bore and Stroke (mm): 73.0 x 89.4
Compression Ratio: 10.4:1
Valvetrain: 16-Valve SOHC VTEC (R)
Multi-Point Fuel Injection
Drive-by-Wire Throttle System (TM)
Front-Wheel Drive
CARB Emissions Rating: LEV-2
Direct Ignition System with Immobilizer
100,000-Miles-or-More Tune-Up Interval*

Transmissions:

Gear Ratios

5-Speed Manual Transmission

1st: 3.462 2nd:1.870 3rd: 1.321 4th: 0.970 5th: 0.757 Final Drive: 4.294
Reverse: 3.231

5-Speed Automatic Transmission (available)

1st: 2.995 2nd: 1.678 3rd: 1.066 4th: 0.756 5th: 0.550 Final Drive: 4.562
Reverse: 1.956

Body/Suspension/Chassis:

Unit-Body Construction
MacPherson Strut Front Suspension
Torsion-Beam Rear Suspension
Stabilizer Bar (mm., front): 21.0
Electric Power-Assisted Rack-and-Pinion Steering (EPS)
Steering Wheel Turns, Lock-to-Lock: 2.41
Steering Ratio: 12.8
Turning Diameter, Curb-to-Curb (ft.): 35.6
Power-Assisted Ventilated Front Disc/Rear Drum Brakes (in.): 10.3/7.9
Wheels: 14" with Full Covers//15" Alloy
All-Season Tires: P175/65 R14 81S//P195/55 R15 84H
Compact Spare Tire

Interior Measurements:

Headroom (in., front/rear): 40.6/38.6
Legroom (in., front/rear): 41.9/33.7
Shoulder Room (in., front/rear): 52.8/50.6
Hiproom (in., front/rear): 51.2/51.0
Cargo Volume (cu. ft., seat up/down): 21.3/TBD
Passenger Volume (cu. ft.): 90.1
Seating Capacity: 5

Exterior Measurements:

Wheelbase (in.): 96.5
Length (in.): 157.4
Height (in.): 60
Width (in.): 66.2
Track (in., front/rear): 57.3/57.1
Curb Weight (lbs. MT/AT): 2432/2514//2471/2551
Weight Distribution (%, front/rear, MT): 61.8/38.2//61.6/38.4
Weight Distribution (%, front/rear, AT): 63.3/36.7//63.2/36.8

EPA Mileage Estimates*/Capacities:

5-Speed Manual (City/Highway): 33 / 38
5-Speed Automatic (City/Highway): 31 / 38
Crankcase (qt.): 4.4
Coolant System (gal.): 1.4
Fuel (gal.): 10.83
Required Fuel: Regular Unleaded

* Preliminary EPA mileage estimates determined by Honda. Final EPA mileage estimates were not available at the time of printing. Use for comparison purposes only. Your mileage may vary.

___There is a ton of controversy about the US based Fit’s Gearing and FE as the 07 Civic and 03 – 06 Corolla knock it into the dirt yet are far heavier and larger automobiles … More will be explained later.

___Tom and I have more plans for specs as time moves forward but this should suffice for the Honda Fit fans. I am one as well but with a harsh viewpoint given the mistakes made with it.

___Good Luck

___Wayne

Hi Dan and Tiger:

___And of course what would the upcoming Honda Fit’s exterior pic as seen in the Gallery - Chicago Autoshow (http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/showgallery.php?cat=502) be without a pic of its interior ;)

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/2/Resize_of_100_0037.jpg

___Good Luck

___Wayne

5-Speed Manual Transmission

1st: 3.462 2nd:1.870 3rd: 1.321 4th: 0.970 5th: 0.757 Final Drive: 4.294
Reverse: 3.231

5-Speed Automatic Transmission (available)

1st: 2.995 2nd: 1.678 3rd: 1.066 4th: 0.756 5th: 0.550 Final Drive: 4.562
Reverse: 1.956

___There is a ton of controversy about the US based Fit’s Gearing and FE as the 07 Civic and 03 – 06 Corolla knock it into the dirt yet are far heavier and larger automobiles … More will be explained later.

Ouch! 4.29:1 and 4.56:1 final drive? What were they thinking?:mad:

Xcel;

I'm all about the statement: {Pictures are worth a Thousand words} :cool:

Great, Pics. of Honda Fit inside and out.

I Likeeeeee :D

Terry

can someone explain those numbers? how does the final drive ratio work for fuel economy?

I was only excited about the fit because of the paddle shifters. Manual operation without needing to worry about rev matching (the Canadian CSX with paddle shifters received much praise hoping the fit will follow too) which means I can drive with no brakes thanks to engine braking.

It'll be sweet if we can put it into neutral and then on the triptronic program select the gear you want to be in. Then put it into drive and it'll auto rev match for you!

Dream on ~

can someone explain those numbers? how does the final drive ratio work for fuel economy?
Dream on ~

I guess I will give it a shot.

A lower final drive means that your engine will turn slower at a given speed. This means that there is less energy expended in movings pistons and such and less friction also. As long as your engine has enough torque at the lower rpm, you should get better FE.

Take my Del Sol for example... I have a final drive of 4.06:1. At 55 MPH, in 5th gear my engine turns at 2200 RPM. I am planning on installing a CX transmission with a 3.25:1 final drive. The lower final drive will mean that my engine will only need to turn at 1750 RPM to maintain 55 MPH, 20% less. Now that doesn't mean 20% better FE necessarily because the engine will have to work harder at the lower speed to keep the car at 55. I am hoping for a 10% increase at highway speeds. At 45 and lower, the lower final drive wont help much because 5th gear on my current transmission is low enough to provide excellent FE.

Hi Phil McNeal:

___Dan nailed it. The following might give you an idea as to a real world example of taller gearing vs. shorter in an article created by Popular Mechanics …

Hybrid vs. Gas Cross Country (http://www.popularmechanics.com/automotive/auto_technology/1266881.html?page=3&c=y)

One thing the EPA doesn't take into account, however, is that speed limits of 70 and 75 mph have displaced the "double nickel" in many states. And assuming Buford T. Justice gives you a 5- to 10-mph window, it is not unlikely that traffic will be flowing normally at 80 mph. Still, at that speed, by the time we stop for dinner and refueling in Wheeling, W.Va., the EX has returned 38.8 mpg--better than its EPA highway rating. Surprisingly, the Hybrid gave us 45.4 mpg--worse, even, than its EPA city rating …

With half the trip under our belt, some opinions are beginning to crystallize. First, the Civic EX might get better fuel economy if it had a deeper overdrive gear. At 80 mph, and 4000 rpm, the 1.7-liter Four is buzzing like a swarm of killer bees. The Hybrid's tach shows just under 3000 rpm at the same speed. And its engine is much happier. However, acceleration up to and beyond that speed is a bit better in the EX. Honda claims the Hybrid is about as quick as a normal Civic. But that comparison was likely made with a DX or an LX model Civic, both of which have 12 fewer horses and 4 fewer foot-pounds of torque.___One of my issues with today’s automobile manufacturers is they will sacrifice performance for economy in their hybrid offerings yet kill their non-hybrids by saddling them with much shorter gearing. WongKN, a mod over at ToV and who writes articles on automobiles like the Asian based Fit believes Honda wants to make sure the NA (North American) Fit is known in this country as a capable performer first and foremost before the next gen Fit hits the marketplace in 1 - 3 years. Thus the terrible FE and strange gearing for a 2,400 - 2,500 # B-Class size subcompact possibly? Honda has been screwing over the Europeans and Asians for years with this gearing issue in the Fit given Honda use’s the EXACT same 1.3L ICE in the Euro Fit as that in the HCH-II and I mean EXACT but gear it so poorly as to allow the huge discrepancy in FE between the much heavier hybrid and the less heavy Honda Fit overseas??? It is almost as if they are throwing away FE to make the HCH-I and II’s look that much better?

___Finally, I want you to take a look at Psyshack’s brand new 06 non-hybrid Civic EX 0 - 60 vid’s.

0 – 60 Run #1 (http://www.psyshack.com/MVI_4979.AVI)
0 – 60 Run #2 (http://www.psyshack.com/MVI_4980.AVI)
0 – 60 Run #3 (http://www.psyshack.com/MVI_4982.AVI)

___Did you notice that he doesn’t even leave third gear before he is already south of 60 mph? The car mags do their 0 -60 runs very similarly and thus a short fifth or final is simply wasting fuel.

___A bit OT as its more performance oriented then FE, I used XNoteStopwatch on Psy’s videos and although not even close to scientific, I tried to start the stopwatch when I saw movement out the windows and stop when the digital speedo hit 60 or passed through it depending on what was or wasn’t displayed. One thing for sure, from 0 - 30 mph, that thing is a rocket ship ;)

****************
Run #1:

First XNoteStopwatch time = 9.46 seconds
Second XNoteStopwatch time = 9.74 seconds
Third XNoteStopwatch = 9.37 seconds

Avg. = 9.52 seconds
****************
Run #2:

First XNoteStopwatch time = 10.30 seconds
Second XNoteStopwatch time = 10.03 seconds
Third XNoteStopwatch = 10.09 seconds

Avg. = 10.14 seconds
****************
Run #3:

First XNoteStopwatch time = 9.23 seconds
Second XNoteStopwatch time = 9.65 seconds
Third XNoteStopwatch = 9.34 seconds

Avg. = 9.41 seconds
****************

___Good Luck

___Wayne

Not Impressed with FIT on bit. Follwing its overseas record. I just dont get it. Glad it coming cause it forced the Civic upscale a tad. I doubt my Honda dealer will stock them at Civic or Accord levels. Its MPG is joke IMO. Again another case for Metros, Festiva's, HX's to be refurb'd and out MPG them and still cost less... And a paddle shifter AT in a car of this class. Cool above function with mpg on par with Civicand about 1/3 the go go power.

I want to believe this report - but my gut says it may be too good to be true.

Edmonds says a hybrid Fit will get 80mpg (http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=109394).

One side of me says - It can be done in a subcompact. Lots of advances since the introduction of the Insight in 1999.

The other side of me says - What's their source? Honda has said little more than it will build a hybrid Fit.

While I've heard a couple of 80mpg+ quotes, I'll put it in the speculative category for now...

Hi Chuck:

___I think both of us know how we might be able to take a Honda Fit w/ 1.5L to 80 mpg in a one off max FE run but it would not be a pretty spectacle … Even with the Insight’s 1.0 L ICE w/ Lean burn, HCH-II’s IMA, and HCH-II’s valve train mod(s), its aerodynamics and weight will never let it achieve anywhere near 80 mpg per the EPA’s HWFET test. Not using today’s EPA numbers anyway ;) I think the writer at Edmunds simply made an off-the-cuff statement without knowing what he was talking about … Or you and I will be driving a Honda Fit hybrid within 2 years!

___Good Luck

___Wayne

This explains a lot....

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1143154015483&call_pageid=968867497088&col=969048871196

Partly, it's because the four factories that build the Fit — Japan, Thailand, China and Brazil — have been cranking them out as fast as they can. Indeed, the little subcompact was the first car in decades to wrestle away best-seller status in Japan from Toyota's perennially popular Corolla.

It's also because the drivetrains that Fit was initially launched with — 1.0- and 1.3-litre four-cylinder engines coupled to your choice of manual or continuously-variable automatic transmissions — weren't suited for the North American market.

Large project manager (or, in other words, chief engineer) Tetsuya Nomura says North Americans' taste for instant acceleration and bottom-end flexibility didn't (ahem) fit with the original car's powertrain setup, so they developed a 1.5-litre engine along with a North American-exclusive five-speed automatic transmission to give customers the peppy feel they expect from a small car.

I guess I'm a bit dissapointed. Whatever happened to the Civic VX hatchback? 48 City, 55 Highway. Now that is a true hypermilers car! Cheap, simple and enough room for four. Some day I plan on transplanting a VX engine (D15Z1 VTEC-economy) into the del Sol. 70 MPG for sure!
Based on my own extensive Civic HX experience (over 9 years and 146,000 miles on my own) I'd have to say any dreams of 70mpg area just that - dreams. Fact is it would be very hard to achieve even 50mpg in a VX without very good hypermiling techniques if you ever use the freeway or spend any significant time below 25mph or idling. That's where you get killed on cars like the VX and HX and why hybrids exist, to be honest.

As a point of reference, Car and Driver had a long-term Civic VX (in other words, they owned one for 35,000 miles) and averaged 41mpg with it. The long-term fleet cars really don't get beat on the way they beat up their short term cars, and the fact they fell pretty short of the city rating should give you an idea of what you're up against.

To be honest, I'd say the Honda Fit is at the top of my list of replacement cars at this point in time. I love the high FE of my HX, currently around 37-39 mpg in mostly 50-75 degree weather for my short 8 mile commute, 4 miles of which is 65-70mph freeway. What I do not like is that it's still a 9 year old car with 146,000 miles and not a terribly good crashworthiness rating even when it was new, which is a BAD sign compared to the cars out nowadays. Although the Fit is barely even 100 pounds heavier than my car, it's loaded with way more crash survivability technology in the build structure and airbags than my car has. That peace of mind is worth a lot to me, not to mention the Fit would give me 2 more doors and about two times as much usable cargo space with the seats folded.

EDIT: One last data point: this month's Car and Driver got 35mpg from their Honda Fit test car in a 1000 mile drive around Ohio in late February / Early March timeframe. i.e. cold! So if we compare C/D's 35mpg in the Fit to the 41mpg in the VX, suddenly the Fit doesn't look so bad, right?

Based on my own extensive Civic HX experience (over 9 years and 146,000 miles on my own) I'd have to say any dreams of 70mpg area just that - dreams. Fact is it would be very hard to achieve even 50mpg in a VX without very good hypermiling techniques if you ever use the freeway or spend any significant time below 25mph or idling. That's where you get killed on cars like the VX and HX and why hybrids exist, to be honest.

As a point of reference, Car and Driver had a long-term Civic VX (in other words, they owned one for 35,000 miles) and averaged 41mpg with it. The long-term fleet cars really don't get beat on the way they beat up their short term cars, and the fact they fell pretty short of the city rating should give you an idea of what you're up against.

To be honest, I'd say the Honda Fit is at the top of my list of replacement cars at this point in time. I love the high FE of my HX, currently around 37-39 mpg in mostly 50-75 degree weather for my short 8 mile commute, 4 miles of which is 65-70mph freeway. What I do not like is that it's still a 9 year old car with 146,000 miles and not a terribly good crashworthiness rating even when it was new, which is a BAD sign compared to the cars out nowadays. Although the Fit is barely even 100 pounds heavier than my car, it's loaded with way more crash survivability technology in the build structure and airbags than my car has. That peace of mind is worth a lot to me, not to mention the Fit would give me 2 more doors and about two times as much usable cargo space with the seats folded.

EDIT: One last data point: this month's Car and Driver got 35mpg from their Honda Fit test car in a 1000 mile drive around Ohio in late February / Early March timeframe. i.e. cold! So if we compare C/D's 35mpg in the Fit to the 41mpg in the VX, suddenly the Fit doesn't look so bad, right?
Interesting write up. I enjoyed reading your comments here and they do to me seem to be "Real-World" based. The Honda Fit I think will be a Car for many New Owners.

i saw the fit with my very two eyes today, boy that thing is sure small... when i peeked inside wow so much room and its smaller than my coupe! unbelieveable....

i want one now just because the design is cool and its a better people hauler than mine, if babied probably get the same mileage as I or better ;) even though the curb weight for the fit vs my car is almost the same something tells me the vtec, electronic throttle and torque will outpeform my car just because i dunno its a gut feeling...

... even if the numbers don't tell you so....