Archives

Hi All:

My parents have been having a problem starting their third generation Prius for about 6-months now. From a once every two to three week occurrence to an everyday occurrence this past week, something is going on that I do not have an answer for. I have driven their car about once a month since its purchase and have never experienced the Fail to “Ready” Mode – Start so I had my mom video it with her explanations. Watch the Green and Orange lights on the Start button during the narration and screen displays in particular. It appears as if they are locking in ACC mode (is holding down the button for 2-seconds to reboot even needed?) but let me know your experience. According to my mom, she has held down the button for a much longer period then 2 seconds and it will still not reboot sometimes.

It appears as if the Prius is locking in on ACC mode but let me know once you view the video. My parents are becoming afraid that their Prius will not start when they drive it somewhere and I wanted to make sure it was nothing they are doing wrong before moving it up beyond the local Toyota dealership (Car Max in Kenosha, WI).

The “problem” occurs usually after they have driven the car for 5 to 30-minutes and allow it to sit in the parking lot of wherever they are. When they get back in to go home, they experience this problem on an ever increasing occurrence basis.

Click on the YouTube logo to watch it in full screen at 480p to 1080p on your own PC if you could and provide feedback ASAP.

http://www.youtube.com/v/ii8L6dzpe7Y?version=3

Thanks again

Wayne

I watched it a few times and I couldn't see anything about what she was doing that I would expect to result in failure to start. In my 2G it goes straight into "ready" any time I push the start button with foot on the brake (unless it's already ready, in which case it shuts back down). Granted, I don't have a 3rd gen so I'm not familiar with any peculiarities of the system. In the 2G there is no 2-second delay or button hold for anything to happen so I don't really understand that part of the description.

One thing that comes to mind is the classic weak 12V battery thing. When the 12V battery is on its way out in a Prius, the gremlins come out in force. All kinds of odd behavior can result, including start-up symptoms. That sort of thing would get worse quickly when the weather turns cold. (Right about this time of year!) I say get a read on battery voltage under load (acc mode) and blame that first if it's dropping much below 12V.

You are not holding the button until the ready light comes on. It thinks you have activated the ignition and when you do it again you have put the car into ignition 2. By repeatedly pressing the power button you are turning it off. It started the last time because you where more diligent. Take time and read your manual so you understand how the system works! Good luck, H

Hi Harold:

I do not remember holding the Start button until the ready light comes on. Are you sure about that?

Wayne

+1 on the possibility of a weak 12V battery. But given the age of the car, that would require
either the dealer failed to fully charge it and repeatedly driving very short distances, or the
battery has been deeply discharged once or twice. Typical 12V service life is ~4 yrs with
some reduction in extremely hot or cold areas.

It would be a good idea to check the tightness of the battery connections, especially the
connection of the small ground wire to the bodywork. The battery is in the rear, under the
hatch floor and spare tire. It takes a bit of digging to get to it.

I have not heard of "rebooting" by holding the start/power button for 2 seconds before.
At least on the Gen II, depressing the start/power button for 2 seconds is for emergency
engine shut down.

The problem may have to do with depressing the brake pedal. It is possible that the switch
that sends the "brake pedal is depressed" signal is out of alignment. IIRC, there are actually
2 switches; one for the brake lights, and one for the "OK to initiate the start sequence" signal.

Yes, you do have an issue. On your video, it shows that the car is not going through the proper boot sequence. The only light on the left is the anti skid. During the proper boot, the yellow triangle lights up as well as many other idiot lights. As you can see in the video, I push the button very quickly. It's not a push and hold.

http://www.youtube.com/v/_fwaDGudIys?version=3

I didn't record it but without my foot on the brake, I started the accessory mode. When it starts, the only thing illuminated is the radio. The dash is dark.

On my 2006 I just push the button-foot on brake- and that is it.Probably less than .2 second of "hold"
Our 2006 also has the original battery- -5.5 years of service and probably 6 years old.
There is something wrong with that vehicle.
Charlie
PS Yes when $$ situation improves the battery is first order of business.

I too am inclined to think the battery may be a contributor to the problem. Since new, the car starter would only require a "brief" push as with MS's car. I remember commenting to Wayne about nine months ago that the starter was getting slower as it required me to hold the button down longer -- but it did eventually start.

About six months ago, the no start problem began. A key factor is that it doesn't happen when the car has been sitting in the garage overnight. It seems only to happen after we have driven it someplace and the car sits in a parking lot for awhile. I have even stopped shutting it off when I'm sitting waiting -- like waiting for my sister to come out of her apartment. I call her on the cell phone and she gets her stuff together, but it takes her about five minutes before she gets to my car. I used to shut it off while sitting, but now I leave it on because I'm afraid it won't start up again.

I just went out to try the accessory mode. It took only a "brief" push to start the car with the brake on or to start the accessory mode without the brake on or to shut the car down. In accessory mode, the whole dashboard lit up, just like when starting the car -- except the "ready" display doesn't show up. Everything worked fine -- because it got a good sleep overnight. Weird! Could it be that the battery gets drawn down from the drive/trip causing it not to start -- but seems to recover its charge after sitting overnight in the garage?

The problem of not starting is getting more and more frequent. The trips aren't too short, usually about five to fifteen miles out. It happens to me and it happens to my husband. Surely we can't both be the culprits of operator error over and over again? That is the usual response from repairmen when it is difficult for them to duplicate the problem. It worked with a "brief" starter push for the first two years. Very frustrating.

Any help would be most appreciated. I will be taking the car in to Carmax, it is still under warrantee, but it's hard to find the problem when they can't duplicate it right away. When Wayne starts it, it has usually been sitting in my garage over night and has "rested" up so it works for him. He suggested the video approach so I can prove that it happens. Very frustrating.

Hi Harold:

I do not remember holding the Start button until the ready light comes on. Are you sure about that?

Wayne

Most of us don't Wayne, it is just a good habit to get into.:D H

Are those wires wrapped around the steering column attached to a scangauge, by any chance? If so, that would be an easy way to check the battery. Set one of the gauges to show voltage, activate the SG before starting the car so you can see what happens, and let us know what you see.

I agree with Rokeby that the car shouldn't be due for a new 12V for a few more years unless something has happened to this one, like deep discharges or a factory defect. However, defective batteries are not unheard of.

I was able to replicate some of this on my 2011 Prius by leaving my foor OFF the brake and pushing the Start button and holding it for several seconds. Then I get the yellow antiskid symbol on the left and 4-5 idiot lights on the right, plus the gearshift display and the HSD. The Ready light is not on, the car won't go into gear and won't move.

In my case:
(a) If I then push the brake down at this point and again press the Start button, the boot sequence will complete and the car will start.

(b) If instead I push the Start button without touching the brake, the car shuts down. At that point, I can mash on the brake and push Start and it will boot up as usual.

I suspect that in your case (as someone already suggested) the brake pedal sensor is faulty or misadjusted so that the computer is not getting the message that the brake pedal has been pushed down. Alternatively, maybe the brake pedal is not being mashed down far enough, but this seems unlikely given that you are familiar with the car and have been using it without problems. Still, it might be worth trying really standing on the pedal to see if that makes a difference.

I found a vague post this morning that sounded like a similar issue. The dealer found a 3 port USB plug under the seat that was replaced.

I think it is the start switch problem. I think it is not engaging correctly. On tested it on my car and the start switch engages immediately. Either way, if it is under warranty get Toyota to fix it or get them to get you a new car.

Any updates on this?? Did you find out where the problem was??

Hi All:

A little update… It is getting worse as yesterday, my mom and my sister had the fail to ready occur 6 times.

So we take it in today with the above vid and many more just like it. The Carmax Service writer gets in and it happens to her 3 times. They take the car to the back and we wait. The Tech comes out and it starts so he drives it into the back. They said the Fob has a low battery which is not the case because both fobs – my moms and dads -- are doing it and it is still random but getting worse.

With new battery’s in the single fob, the service writer asks that I place the key right next to the Start button when booting it up. Like that is going to help and who would use a proximity key like this “ever”. Nobody would. Before we left, I showed the Service team manager yet another vid recorded after the video above and she said yes, I see it did not go to “Ready”.

We drove it home. During my third time of booting it up with 30-minute waits in between each reboot over a 2-hour period as it sat in my parents garage, it does it again as seen below.

http://www.youtube.com/v/szbX1ZbC42I?version=3

I have to head back out there on Friday to do this all over again and it has to be extremely frustrating for my parents who purchased the Prius on blind faith and my personal recommendation that the Prius is the most reliable vehicle on the road :(

Any additional commentary would be greatly appreciated.

Wayne

I would be asking for escalation and making a phone call or two myself. Your videos should be enough proof. Their denial and blaming it on a $2.00 battery is very weak.

How many times has it been back for this issue?

Use the "L" word in front of the service rep next time you're there.

According to the Wisconsin lemon law, a nonconformity is defined as a condition or defect that:

Substantially impairs the use, value or safety of a motor vehicle.

Then after a reasonable number of attempts to repair the nonconformity and the nonconformity continues to exist then:

The manufacturer must either repurchase the vehicle or, if the vehicle is owned, replace the vehicle

I have recommended the Prius to many people and several people that I know personally have bought the Prius on my recommendation. I would feed responsible too if there was an issue. Is there another dealer around that isn't a huge superstore that you could take it to?

Wayne, I would elevate this. You have a lot of pull with this. Very few people has a voice (website) like you and Toyota will not want all the negative publicity that you (your website) can generate. They will fix this situation immediately if you elevate it to corporate level.

For some reason it is not getting the message that the brake peddle has been actuated? H

The light would not be grn if it is not picking up the brake actuation! H

Hi All:

With a few trips out to Carmax yesterday, it is in their hands. They are replacing the 12V and will keep it for a few days to see if that cures it. That is not the problem so they have their work cut out for them.

Harold, yup. The green light on the power button shows it was not the brake actuation switch.

My mom is driving a very used loaner Altima for the time being.

Wayne

Had you checked voltage on the 12v with the Scangauge? What was it when she shut it off, then in the next day or two if it was not driven?

I believe a new 12V will do the trick. H

Hi MiIke:

I did not :(

Harold, I am hoping that is the fix too.

Wayne

I'm still waiting for my "no/start" Prius to be returned from the dealer. They ordered a replacement battery, but somehow it got lost in the shuffle so they had to reorder again on Monday. They said when they get it into the car, they want to keep it a day or two to see if it works OK before returning it to me.

I was looking into the manual on the internet and discovered my service record. I see that this is the third (actually fourth) time in for the "engine/no start" problem. The last was 4/29/10 when they recharged the battery. This particular problem has been escalating since about six or nine months ago. I didn't take it back in because they always say I must have left something on to drain the battery, or they can't fix something that they can't duplicate. That is why I bought the camera so we could take a movie of the problem -- although they weren't really interested in watching it at all. They asked about the green light on the starter button, and I told them if they would watch the movie they could see for themselves -- and they finally watched the movie.

The problem has been steadily getting worse -- progressing from once a month to once every couple weeks, once a week, every day, several times a day. I told Wayne that the starter seemed to be getting slower even before that "no start" started to happen. I figured that it was time to take it in again with the movie proof. They suspected the battery the last time I was there, but they didn't replace it -- just charged it. They called every day to tell me what was happening and I asked them if they had driven the car to check if it would start. They said they couldn't because the battery has completely drained so they have to wait until the new one comes in. I asked them what made the battery drain completely for them, and they said they didn't know. I hope they get to the bottom of this problem soon.

I really like the Prius for the great gas mileage, and the four doors for my passengers/friends, and the hatchback space for hauling stuff -- all works great for my needs. The styling is even nice. If they can only fix this starter problem, I would be happy. LadySpirit

Thanks for the update. I was wondering if you got it back. As I mentioned. I would consider taking it to another dealer if they don't fix it this time.

Very sloppy care! H

Harold: Very sloppy care! Did you mean me or the dealer? LadySpirit

The Dealers are not caring for your car, or for you. H

Was this vehicle purchased new? Is it still under the manufacturer's warranty? Three or four times for the same issue "should" qualify for a lemon law of some sort, and the dealer should have to buy the car from you! They differ from state to state. I'd look into for the state the vehicle was purchased in?

Hi Brandon:

First 2010 Prius-III in Wisconsin (cleanmpg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22416)

Wayne

Thanks Wayne. You posted that story while I was AWOL. So I am assuming that, since it has been more than 18 months since purchase, any lemon law opportunity has since passed. :( Man, I hope you all can get this figured out!

The dealer called and said they installed the new battery this morning. It started just fine. Then they drove the car, let it sit, then started it just fine. They want to keep it until this afternoon, let it sit, drive it, let it sit, see if it will start.

I hope the new battery works, but I have my doubts. If the battery was low, why would it start fine after a night of sleep -- but not after it had been driven and then sit for an hour or so. It recently sat at the airport for eleven days and started right up. Just doesn't make sense to me.

Wayne said he has his doubts too, but this is at least a start to finding the problem -- but hopefully the final solution. However, I'm inclined to think something is making the battery discharge, but what? I so carefully go through a ritual to make sure everything is off, my grandkids laugh and think I'm crazy. When one of them drives sometimes, when they stop the car and shut it down -- I make them start it up again so I can go through my checklist of shutting everything down. Nothing gets left on. My husband checks the house and garage before he goes to bed at night to make sure the garage door is down, the lights are off, and the car is dark. How more careful can one be?

Well -- you all wish me luck that my car will work again. I was so happy when I got it new, and now I cross my fingers every time I get in.

I'll probably replace it next summer (three years old and out of warranty), but I just don't know what to get to replace it. I still like the idea of the Prius over everything Wayne has brought me to drive in the last couple years. It is the perfect car for us, what we do with it. It would be tough having to go back to the gas station at least twice as much as we do now with the fuel efficient Prius. We only run about $25 to $30 each month at the gas station. I do so hope this Prius will work again for me.

More to come later!

Hi All:

I went out to CarMax to meet up with my mom when she picked up her Prius. 4 miles from the house, I hit a fawn. I missed the Doe that was leading by about a foot as she made it across and into the other lane as I passed but the fawn stepped right into my path as I was slowing from 50 to maybe 40 when I hit it :(

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/2/Deer_Collision.jpg
2005 Honda Accord and its first deer collision.

And my parents Prius? The battery died while it was in their storage area waiting for the new battery so …

They replaced it and now it boots and readies much faster. We will see but hopefully it is a fix and this 12V was simply bad?

Wayne

Man that Fawn did a # on your parents Prius! If it doesn't rain it pour's!!! Hal

Man that Fawn did a # on your parents Prius! If it doesn't rain it pour's!!! Hal

That's Wayne's Accord, not his parents' Prius. Dang Wayne, sorry to hear and see! :ccry:

Ouch! That poor Accord has been a bit bashed up in the last 3 years. :( Hopefully it can be repaired more quickly than the last time?

LadySpirit, lead acid batteries like the 12V in your Prius often "rejuvinate" a bit after sitting for a while when they are weak. I've seen marginal starting on a conventional vehicle with a battery like that which would crank fine after sitting several hours but if I cranked it a few times in a row within a 30min span it wouldn't have enough power anymore. Colder weather tends to lower battery capacity so the issue would become more pronounced as the "reserves" got to be lower.

All of the above is just to say that I think you have a decent chance of having a fully repaired vehicle now -- especially as if there was a battery drain you'd see harder starting after longer intervals, not shorter ones. :)

Thanks, Brandon. H

I have high hopes this will fix the problem.

If this one goes in a few years, get the new Optima Yellow Top designed for the Prius. The OEM battery is relatively wimpy.

Hi Ksstathead:

I am hopeful now too. My mom’s Prius certainly does boot faster than before so maybe it really was the problem?

She is heading out this afternoon to go to a local movie theater where the Prius has always had the Ready Fail when she leaves. I asked her to call me as soon as the movie is done and let me know if it still occurs.

Wayne

Hi All:

She made it to the movies, came out after they were over, it booted up quick and went right into ready.

She is nervous about it but maybe, just maybe the problem is behind us...

Wayne

Hi All:

It is now two weeks since the 12V replacement and not a single hiccup. To have to go through 2 tow ins and 3 more visits for the non-starting issue over the past two years, at least it is behind her now...

Wayne

Good news! It's too bad your mom had to go through that, but I'm relieved that it really was just the old 12V thing.

An another note, how hard would it be for the system to detect low battery voltage at startup and flash a plain-english warning on the MFD? Toyota hybrids always get screwy when the 12V weakens, so you would think they could have done something like that before the millionth vehicle went out the door.

Note to self :
Once in a while , set SG to show battery voltage. Oh yeah , and check battery water level.

Good news! It's too bad your mom had to go through that, but I'm relieved that it really was just the old 12V thing.

The battery is on the PriusChat "questionnaire", a list of questions drivers asking about low mileage are asked to answer.

An another note, how hard would it be for the system to detect low battery voltage at startup and flash a plain-english warning on the MFD? Toyota hybrids always get screwy when the 12V weakens, so you would think they could have done something like that before the millionth vehicle went out the door.

Maybe this is one of those dealer-friendly features that gets people to come in and pay for unnecessary diagnostic work.

Given the "Key found in vehicle" and "Shift to P" erroneous messages I think the best you could expect would be something like "Please turn off the stereo".

Great news!!! I'm sure LadySpirit will get many more years of reliable service out of the vehicle (provided she wishes to keep it that long).

How's the Accord?

if you have a useless cigarette lighter socket:

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31rs8KfsF7L._SL500_AA300_.jpg

http://www.amazon.com/Equus-3721-Battery-Charging-Monitor/dp/B000EVWDU0/ref=pd_sim_auto_1

Hi Herm:

She has an SG-II.

Wayne