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xcel
03-28-2007, 10:33 PM
Consider California's $92,000, razor-sharp 2007 Tesla Roadster, which sold out in four months late last year. (http://www.forbes.com/energy/2007/03/23/cars-green-future-forbeslife-cx_dl_0326greenfuture.html?partner=rss)

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/501/Tesla_Roadster.jpgDan Lienert - Forbes - Mar. 28, 2007

Tesla Roadster - Fast, Furious and totally green.

Robert Q. Riley Enterprises, a Phoenix-based design company, recently unveiled a "do-it-yourself" kit for building an advanced hybrid car.

For $200, you get the company's construction plans for a three-wheeled sports car called the XR-3. A completed XR-3 will reportedly deliver between 125 and 225 miles per gallon. A three-cylinder diesel engine powers the front wheels and an electric motor run by a lithium-ion battery powers the rear wheel. The driver can switch between battery-only, diesel-only and hybrid driving modes. The DIY kit will be available this May or June.

Riley is just one of several companies offering electric-car conversions. Spend, say, $15,000 to $25,000, and you can have any car you want converted into an electric one thanks to an array of emerging, green technologies carmakers are unveiling.

Take Biodiesel. An alternative to traditional, petroleum-based diesel, it is produced from such organically derived resources as animal fats and vegetable oils, including recycled restaurant oils. And the electric cars that use it are not only alive but thriving. Consider California's $92,000, razor-sharp 2007 Tesla Roadster, which sold out in four months late last year.

Some green car technologies are just getting off the ground. For example, Monaco-based Venturi--the company that builds the $392,000 Fétish electric car--has a new kind of "hybrid" car called the Astrolab prototype.

When we say "hybrid car," we usually think of vehicles that combines conventional, gas-powered engines with the assistance of electric motors. But the 75-mile-per-gallon Astrolab joins solar power and electric power--a pioneering feat, Venturi says.

Who knows if this kind of idea will take off? Some alternative propulsion systems, such as steam-powered vehicles, always have fanatics that back the technology, even though the mechanics never become mainstream.

Chances Of Success

The emerging, green car technologies that stand the best chance of catching on, experts say, are the ones that combine multiple forms of advanced propulsion systems. For example, " plug-in hybrids" combine hydrogen and battery power.

General Motors introduced a pioneering propulsion system at January's North American International Auto Show in Detroit, in the Chevrolet Volt prototype. The Volt is a battery-powered electric car that uses a traditional engine to create additional electricity. That electricity can come from gasoline, ethanol, diesel or hydrogen.

In an interview at the show, Imre Molnar, dean of Detroit’s College for Creative Studies--a breeding ground for Detroit’s car designers--said that “hybrids are very nice but extremely complex and expensive to manufacture.” The propulsion system, he added, is “a much more elegant, simple solution than the traditional hybrid vehicle that we’ve come to know in the last few years.”

Some scientists agree. The 2006 documentary Who Killed the Electric Car? features several who are skeptical about the promise of hydrogen cars. Year after year, they say, we are told that hydrogen cars are right around the corner--but the estimate of when they will go into mass production never seems to change: "10 to 20 years," most automakers say.

If an emerging technology such as hydrogen is to have a great chance of catching on, it will probably have to come paired with an established alternative technology, such as battery power. Or it will have to power conventional, internal-combustion engines.

But with widespread, grassroots support for building your own vehicles that run on anything other than gasoline, the future for many different kinds of emerging, green car technologies is promising.

BailOut
03-28-2007, 11:30 PM
Spend, say, $15,000 to $25,000, and you can have any car you want converted into an electric one...
That right there is a big problem, possibly second only to your average garage tinkerer working with high amperages.

In my current car, even with gasoline at USD $3.25/gl it equates to $0.07/mile. With the average electric car having an 80 mile range on a 30kWh system and local electricity costing $0.12/kWh it equates to $0.045/mile.

If my conversion costs $15,000 (the low end quoted in the article) and I drive 12,000 miles per year it will take:

15,000 / (12,000 * (.07 - .045)) = 15,000 / 300 = 50 years to break even, when most batteries don't last beyond 6-8 years and most folks don't keep their cars more than 8-10.

As much as I am trying to "go green" that's not a wise financial decision at all. The only way electric vehicles will ever be economical is if they are produced from the ground up as an EV.

xcel
03-28-2007, 11:54 PM
Hi Bailout:

___Most here know that converting a car to EV today is cost prohibitive. The private party purchased packs and HW are ridiculously expensive today. Consider if we were to build your Yaris or my Accord from parts over the counter from our local (stealer) dealerships? At maybe $70K + or so, it would make us think twice about what we drive today as well ;) The great thing is that OEM PHEV’s are coming and not only are there some huge Tax Credits in the works for their purchase once they arrive, they will be OEM sourced and not nearly as expensive as what is available today. With most US citizens having a < 40 mile daily grind, would an extra $4 - $5K for the PHEV to accomplish a 100% all-electric daily commute while never having to use gas ever again be worth it? Except for the few times most would travel more then 40 miles anyway? Gasoline is $2.699 here in the Chicago area and electricity costs just $0.071/kWh. With my electricity being 100% Nuclear derived, my personal GHG emissions would be practically nill and the $4 - 5K upcharge would be made up over the life of the PHEV vehicle pretty easily just as the $2K hybrid penalty (Prius II/HCH-II) can be made up quickly today as well?

___Someday Toyota will offer HSD-2 as an option for < $2K upcharge on all their vehicles. We can also hope to see a PHEV-30 for maybe a $4 - $5K upcharge on their entire lineup as well. Consider a well equipped Yaris w/ HSD-II/PHEV at 70/60 EPA and a 30 mile all-electric range for < $19K. I don’t know about you but I am drooling almost uncontrollably just thinking about it :D

PS: Did you see the post about the car my friend purchased yesterday? I think you are awfully familiar with it ;)

___Good Luck

___Wayne

BailOut
03-29-2007, 12:36 AM
Yep, I'm definitely looking forward to the PHEV's as well (this Yaris is meant to tide me over until the PHEV Prius hits the street, and was a fall-back once I came to the reality of trying to do my own EV conversion), and my local electricity comes from geothermal taps (until I put in my own solar array next year, that is) so my GHG emissions would be totally nil. :)

The thought of a Yaris LB with an HSD-2 is indeed an absolutely tasty one, especially at a sub-20K price! I bet I could hypermile the hell out of it on my wonky commute without breaking a sweat. It'd be like a Prius on a diet (1,000 pounds lighter).

Just the thought of being able to crank out kWh after kWh for a big PHEV battery while engine braking down the mountain makes me smile. I wonder if I'd even have to plug it in... hehe

Dan
03-29-2007, 06:31 AM
Just as a data point, my brother-in-law bought a fully assembled EV-30 in Austin for $10k. It was just an old 1980 subcompact hatchback with the engine replaced with batteries and a few stuffed under the back seat. Batteries were standard deep cycle marine lead-acid.

After about a year, it developed a short and no longer functioned, and under pressure from friends and family he sold it. The funny part is he sold it right back to the Austin EV group AS IS for 10k. Zero depreciation, and it even needed repairs.

11011011

cuchulain
03-29-2007, 09:17 PM
In my current car, even with gasoline at USD $3.25/gl it equates to $0.07/mile. With the average electric car having an 80 mile range on a 30kWh system and local electricity costing $0.12/kWh it equates to $0.045/mile.

.

Hello from Japan

I have not checked out the original article yet, (although the Tesla did attract my attention, slightly misleading) but the range for an average EV if it exists is bothering me. At 80m, for 30kWh thats 375Wh/m which is close to SCE and INRL evaluation of Toyota RAV4 L EV at 400Whr/m(AC) but over on Darells EV homepage in the data section for another RAV4 EV another driver is getting is getting 200-250Wh/m with a range of 120m for 29kWhr NiMH battery. This value seems more typical for real hypermiler world. By the way the Japanese 10-15 mode test, no A/C , on rollers with top speed of 70km/h from Toyotas home page gives 127Whr/km i.e 203Whr/m with a range of 215km or 135m. Keeping the same total weight with Li batteries the range would be closer to 200m.

It seems most RAV4 EV users have PV systems, anyway so the cost payback is a lot quicker for both EV and PV. Darels posting in the mileage log for EV in mpg is not very informative.

Anyway if a decent PHEV (>30) is not available, the Mitsubishi iMieV looks impressive or the Tesla whitestar EV may be the way to go. :D

Thanks Andrew

HyChi
03-30-2007, 06:06 AM
In the end, we always seem to come back for the need for fuel efficiency, no matter the fuel source, electric, hybrid or ethanol. I just came across this article from the BBC about Honda's hydrogen fuel cell prototype. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/4686826.stm
It doesn't get much cleaner than a fuel cell car that gets it's hydrogen from a hydroelectric source. :)



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