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View Full Version : Tahoe/Yukon/Escalade hybrids: The 25 percent problem.


xcel
03-22-2007, 04:29 AM
GM is actually strapping their hybrid drivetrain to a more gas-thirsty engine than their standard conventional model Tahoe and Yukon models. (http://www.workingforchange.com/article.cfm?itemid=22138)

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/501/Cadillac_Escalade_Hybrid.jpgUnion of Concerned Scientists - Mar. 21, 2007

The Cadillac Escalade hybrid will gain 25 percent in fuel economy, which should put its fuel consumption at highway speeds close to 30 mpg. The vehicle's nickel-metal batteries will be supplied by Panasonic EV.

It isn't often that the red carpet at the Academy Awards brings us any hard news (apologies to Joan and Melissa Rivers), but Best Supporting Actress winner Jennifer Hudson made a surprise statement when she showed up in a prototype for the Cadillac Escalade Hybrid.

What was more news than the Escalade Hybrid itself, which should be available about a year from now, was the answer to a fairly pressing question about GM's first true hybrids due to hit the road this Fall, the GMC Yukon and Chevy Tahoe Hybrids. Since the first rumors of these vehicles, we've been expressing surprise and disappointment that, what seems to be a very interesting "two-mode" hybrid system by GM would net merely a 25 percent fuel economy boost over the conventional model. Our suspicions were only heightened when GM announced that their first genuine Vue Hybrid, using the same two-mode drivetrain, would achieve a 40 percent boost over the conventional VUE. Unfortunately, the Car and Driver article (http://www.caranddriver.com/autoshows/12598/2009-cadillac-escalade-hybrid.html) tells us exactly why:

Like the Tahoe and Yukon gas-electrics, the Escalade hybrid will be a two-mode hybrid that supplements GM's venerable 6.0-liter V-8 with power from two electric motors. At low speeds, the vehicle can run on batteries only, the engine only, or a combination of both. At higher speeds, another operating mode engages the electric motors and the cylinder deactivation system for more efficient operation. GM claims that harmful emissions will drop significantly, and fuel economy will be boosted by some 25 percent compared with utes equipped with the 5.3-liter V-8.

So, GM is actually strapping their hybrid drivetrain to a more gas-thirsty engine than their standard conventional model Tahoe and Yukon models. And any claims of "this is what our customers want" is sheer bunk, as out of the roughly 280,000 Yukons and Tahoes sold in 2005 (the last year we have solid stats on), over 70 percent of those vehicles sold had the 5.3 liter engine. It seems the flagging sales of the Honda Accord Hybrid, a vehicle that made that same mistake by going with the six-cylinder rather than the more popular four-cylinder variety for its hybrid, didn't teach GM much of anything.

Muscle hybrids that don't downsize their gas engines are enough of a waste of hybrid technology's potential as it is. To actually upsize the gas engine, then add the hybrid drivetrain for even added kick? As my grandmother would say, it's a shanda (roughly translated to from Yiddish to "shameful travesty").

Of course, the automakers who have invested in the two-mode technology (GM/DaimlerChrysler/BMW) are just trying to play the, "look at the cool technology, aren't we the greenest ones of all now?" game. For instance, check out this article in the Delaware News Journal (http://www.delawareonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070311/BUSINESS/703110308/1003) on the Durango Hybrid, which uses thesame technology and promises the same meager 25 percent fuel economy boost. Here's DaimlerChrysler's quote:

"It is a step above what is available in hybrid architecture," said Nick Cappa, spokesman for DaimlerChrysler. "This is likely to be the template for hybrid architecture."

Even if that were true, it's far more important to use the technologies wisely than just to develop them, as we've seen with conventional vehicle technology over the past three decades. It would be a shame to see hybrid technology go down the gas-thirsty sinkhole of "more power at all costs!" It looks like GM and DaimlerChrysler are poised to learn yet another painful lesson by not breaking from their gas-guzzling rut.

BailOut
03-22-2007, 09:10 AM
Like the Tahoe and Yukon gas-electrics, the Escalade hybrid will be a two-mode hybrid that supplements GM's venerable 6.0-liter V-8

:acool:

That's like putting a band-aid on a shotgun wound.

Chuck
03-22-2007, 09:54 AM
....or triple portions of low-cal food.

brucepick
03-22-2007, 10:14 AM
It's frustrating for me in that as I see it, we're all in this together - but Detroit isn't playing their part as a component of the general society.

They are playing a part that's only appreciated by those who put the emphasis on consumption. Likely that's the car industry's own world view also - emphasis on consumption, and people as dominant over nature and the rest of the universe. As in, it's all here for our pleasure. Where have I heard that before?

The industry needs to be more able to view things through eyes other than their own. Oh well, we all do. Some succeed better than others.

lightfoot
03-22-2007, 03:50 PM
I was wondering when the dilution and obfuscation of the term "hybrid" would begin, and here we go!

Sort of like the term "Professional". The holders for the tissue toilet seat covers in our bathrooms at work say "Kimberly-Clark Professional" on them and I have been pondering what that means, if anything.

locutus
03-22-2007, 03:55 PM
I was wondering when the dilution and obfuscation of the term "hybrid" would begin, and here we go!

Is "greenwashing" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenwashing) the term you're looking for? Certainly applies in this case. :(

lightfoot
03-22-2007, 04:07 PM
Nice, thanks!!

AshenGrey
03-22-2007, 07:29 PM
I had wondered why the improvement was only 25%,considering that 2mode looks as robust as HSD. Why not offer a 3.0L v6 and go for 30-35 MPG?

brick
03-22-2007, 07:36 PM
We'll see if anybody buys one. I have a very strong feeling I know how they're going to do on the mass market...

xcel
03-22-2007, 07:53 PM
Hi All:

___This looks typical of GM as they plan for failure by making their own products look silly … Just as Honda found out with the AH, 70 + % of their buyers choose the I4 yet they hybridized the V6. GM is heading down the same path with the Tahoe/Yukon/Escalade as the numbers allude to above. BAS in the VUE, Aura and Malibu for a $2K + upcharge all the while HSD is a $2K upcharge in the TCH? We all know the winner of that battle … I can only imagine what GM will charge for 2Mode but I am sure it will not be priced competitively to the market even though it is by far a simpler and less costly solution then HSD. On paper, it sure looks enticing but watch GM pull the $4 - $5K + upcharge non-sense with it as well as not achieve the FE we had all hoped.

Chevrolet Tahoe w/ the 5.3: EPA rated 16/22 city/highway.
Chevrolet Tahoe 2Mode w/ the reported 25% improvement: 20/27.5 city/highway.

___Not bad but will they market and price it for success or failure? Even money that GM includes the notorious ECO-Lame light as seen in the Greenline’s w/ BAS vs. a real i and aFCD instrumentation package as well :(

___Good Luck

___Wayne

Chuck
03-22-2007, 08:33 PM
They will be making these in Arlington, Texas - between Fort Worth and Dallas in a GM plant that was been one of the major employers since the 1950's. The plant is very close to the MLB team the Texas Strangers - hope their bating average is considerably better, but not holding my breath.

BailOut
03-22-2007, 09:23 PM
Delta,

You are no longer allowed to post when you've been drinking. :bananalama:


On a more serious note I used to drive past the GM plant in Arlington every day, and I can tell you that while it does employ a fair amount of people (I estimate 5,000 people on 2 shifts) it pales when compared to anything in Detroit (or at least what used to be Detroit).

Dan
03-26-2007, 12:37 PM
Yeah, I have the same complaint on the HiHy. Why oh why didn't they offer it in 4cyl. Still looks like we are going to skip they SUVs and go for another minivan. Nothing I've seen (Tahoe, Yukon, Aspen) have a third row worth the effort.

Odyssey still beats them hands down.

11011011



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